Hi Omega,

Matthias Guenthert didn't use Zimmers library, instead he made (as MV did) his own recordings of some nice taiko drums (these are the drums you are searching for-you can also loudly hear them on HZs new "King Arthur" soundtrack ).
East West produced a percussion sample library called "Stormdrum", which also includes ensemble patches of taiko drums (like MVs). It will supply you with a maximum count of 24 (!!) velocity layers.

All the best,
Hans-Peter

- Arrrghhh ... After holidays my english is always getting worse (noticed the mistakes? I guess in this sentence many of them were included again [:)]
Sorry!

Well thanks a lot, that definetly clears a lot up hehe. However, it looks as if Stormdrum is Loops as opposed to samples. And on top of that, I'm not sure I want to pay $300 just for use of taiko drums.

Hi Omega,

No, on Stormdrum you also find a lot of Multisamples: I would estimate more Multisamples than loops.
I can only recommend it, but you have to own a very powerful computer (either a G5 or a bunch of PCs). Stormdrums needs a lot of RAM and processing power.
In some days I will post a song made with VSL and Stormdrum on the internet.
Maybe then you are convinced.

Regarding the typical Hans Zimmer sound I would advise you to give attention to Hans' own instruments and orchestral instruments order.
You will be surprised when you hear how he manages the brass ensembles. [:D]
Also he rarely uses viola strings ... most of the time he don't use them anyway.
It's not only the Moog Modular synthbass sounds which stands for hans' trademark.
There are a lot more points to consider - like adding additionally artificial reverb with different settings to individual instruments.

Hope this was helpful!

Best greetings,
Hans-Peter

Where is the Moog Modular synthbass available?

It's not available, but you can program it on yourself. You only have to own the Arturia MoogModular V Softsynth, which virtually transforms your Mac/PC to a big box of moog modules. It does its job quite well. I know that, because I compared real MMs with the software version and was surprised by its authencity (My keyboard topic on my A-Levels).
Like always Arturias TAE technology needs a lot of processing power. Of course you can freeze the instrument-tracks.
Then you only have to choose a similar sounding synth bass at the preset selection and do some minor changes on it.
Finally you are in the game.
But Zimmer also uses some FM7 basses as you can hear them on "The Rock". Although Zimmer didn't composed the score (officially [:)], he produced it and was responisble for the very convincing sound design, I guess.
In my opininon the most important factor of the Zimmer sound is his typical symmetrical order of the brass section. Give attention to it ... it's very interesting how he deals with the orchestra. He also uses up to 12-16 horns ...
That's why MV records the string orchestra and the brass section seperately, most of the time.

All the best,
Hans-Peter

You know quite a lot musicmaster...tell us some more! [:D]
What shoes does zimmer usually wear? hehe.

How do you know all this?

Is the FM7 bass from any sample library that we can get our hands on? It would be fun to have the actual zimmer bass that he used alot. Just for fun though.

Seriously, tell us some more! imstrument positioning, eq, instruments that are colouring his orchestrations etc.

Hi,

Actually the best way to imitate the Zimmer basses is to buy some softsynth emulations of these synthesizers. So, for the FM7 basses I would recommend the FM7 by Native Instruments, which performs his job very well.
When I have free time (during the weekend), I can post some tips regarding orchestration and a short demo of it.
Now, I have to process my experiences after meeting THE Craig Armstrong at the Ars Electronica - here in Linz. We talked pretty long about his approach of film scoring and how he uses synths (especially basses on "The Bone Collector") in conjunction with the orchestra. I can tell you: It was a crazy evening.
After the first "Passage" of the festival had been over, I saw a man sitting on the gradate outside, who was obviously looking like Craig Armstrong. After two young girls (his daughters) came and talked to him in English, I took the courage and responded to him that he was looking like the famous film composer Craig Armstrong. And guess what he said - with a big smile on his face: "Yes, I am."
i said: What? You are really Craig Armstrong - I simply couldn't believe it.
He had to laugh about my expression.
Oh, it was so great! I guess that was beside the Goldsmith concert, the most beautiful moment in my life, till yet. More to come soon, hopefully. [:)]

Sorry, but I had to share my feelings with someone else. [:)]
I simply couldn't resist!

Hans-Peter [:D]

That's cool Hans-Peter! I'm happy for you. Hope you meet some more composers, on the way to kwik-e-mart maybe [:D]

Why didn't he just ignore you?(rude offcourse but...) doesn't people bother him all the time?

Please post some examples of orchestration hans! Are you a hobbyist or a composer as a profession?

Kind Regards
AJ

Hello again,

O.K, it's time to strike back again - pretty late - but I haven't got enough time to write about Zimmers sound. No, I didn't meet Craig Armstrong again. [:)]
Audun, I will answer your question at the end of this reply - otherwise you won't take my observations serious, probably. [[:D]]

Let's begin with instrument positioning: As I noticed on many of his recordings, HZs makes use of very - uncommonly - big brass sections compared to typical symphonic occupations. As for example he used 16 horns, 6 trumpets, 5 trombones and one tuba on "The Peacemaker" score.
You can probably imagine that it is quite impossible to adjust the volume between brass and string sections. And even the size ... how would you position an orchestra like this? Believe me, it's nearly impossible.
So, what are you doing? Yes, you guessed it: Recording the sections individually.
And that's one of the most interesting points regarding music produced by Hans Zimmer. Strings and brass are not recorded at the same time.
Now, how does HZ record the brass section? So far as I know, in symmetrical order. That means that you hear the horns and the other brass instruments coming from both sides. First, I want to describe the left side of the recording room: Beginning with the trumpets outside, the horns between trumpets and trombones and the trombones at the middle of the recording room. On the right side you find the same set up vice versa.
Regarding the "high frequency" trumpets you hear on most of HZs scores, I think there are some explanations for it:
1.) Room,
2.) and most probably "computerized human behaviour". So, what the hell is that? [[:D]]
As we all know, a standard human beeing cannot play an instrument like a computer regarding rhythmic precision. When real humans play together with their instruments, everybody starts playing at different, musically even not noticeable moments. In that moment you can hear somewhat "high frequencies", as I call them.
[:D]
So I think that HZ wants to strengthen that kind of sound by shifting the left and the right side's start notes, after recording them.
Further Hans Zimmer also adds some artificial reverb on every instrument section. Sometimes it sounds like a "simple" Waves TrueVerb (that's my opinion), but to be serious - I think he is using one of the more cheaply reverbs like the TC-system 6000 or even more badly. [[[:|]]]

Sometimes he uses "Flügelhörner" combined with french horns as you can hear them on "The Peacemaker". (Siedlaczek samples would do the job, I guess.)
Furthermore I have the feeling that he also uses the piano in its deep regions for amplifying the bass on some cues.
And don't forget: Hans Zimmer rarely uses the viola section. On "The Last Samurai" he didn't even used them. Therefor you find a bunch of celli. [:)]

Now to Audun: [:P]
I don't know why Craig Armstrong took the time to explain me his way of working.
I also was very surprised by his open-mindedness. I guess he is simply a nice guy. [:)] One of the two girls, I think it was Angelina, told me that I was the first who noticed him.
I can't imagine why ... , but who knows ...? [[[:|]]]

At the moment I'm a hobbyist composer beside some minor commcercials and student films I made. BUT: Be careful: Finally I'm a 18-year-old psychology and composition student from Linz. [H]
Hopefully I have enough time to improve my English capabilities, because today I was in the false mood to write this "guide".
But it was overdue ... [:)]

All the best,
Hans-Peter

Oh, yes - I love smileys - I simply love them. [:)]

Hans Peter
That sounds like a very inspiring time you had - that's great. [:D]

Audun
They have Kwik-e-marts in Norway?

Yes, it was ... Thank you.
Hmm, here in Austria we don't have any of these shops, but maybe I will travel to Springfield in a year or so ... I hope that I will meet the great masters of dealing with life: Abu, Barney, Homer and most importantly: Mr. Burns.
But I have no money ... NO !!! (quotation Homer Simpson)

"Excellent, Smithers" (laughing out to the night) [:)]

Hans not only uses "stacked" real brass and strings, he also likes to layer samples on top of his his recordings (or maybe he justs keeps some mockup tracks). MediaVentures has a lot of proprietary samples from the London Symphony Orchestra, as well as all the regular orchestral libraries. It is not difficult to spot patches from SOV, VOTA and, in his older works, from Mirouslav Vitous.

I like Hans' productions, but I tend to view them as a mix of pop/rock with orchestral tracks, using a pop/rock based multitracking approach. It's completely different from how people like JNH, JW, JG etc, compose and record.

You're completely right. Why MV does make use of 16 Gigas per composer?
Layering ... probably even in a very massive way.
I also think you can't compare Zimmer with other composers, but to be honest:
It depends very on the projects. All of us heard some commercial tunes coming from JNHs hands. Again he did a great job on "Signs" which is one of my favourite movies.
You'll find that at all composers working for high-budget movies.
HZ used that and also formed the hollywood sound to a new direction of filmmusic integrating electronic elements. Maybe you heard also about David Arnold who is one of my most favourite composers. Except the "DAD"-joke, his work on "Changing Lanes" and "Stargate" was simply breathtaking.
But who knows who is the man behind the orchestra? Nicholas Dodd is a possible choice, but maybe it's David Arnold who does the most work of the arrangement.
That's one of those questions, no one will ever get an answer.

I mean: Maybe Bruce Fowler is also responsible for the famous HZ sound?
Nobody knows exactly ... one point is for sure: It's a matter of combination the different aspects every member of the MV has to offer. More likely they should name every soundtrack's composer a team than a single person.
All the same ... [*-)]

Best wishes,
Hans-Peter

@Peter Roos said:

I like Hans' productions, but I tend to view them as a mix of pop/rock with orchestral tracks, using a pop/rock based multitracking approach. It's completely different from how people like JNH, JW, JG etc, compose and record.

Yeah, they actually have to write well in order for it to sound good.

Evan Evans

Evan, [:D]

Seriously, Hans-Peter, that was quite fascinating reading. Which is maybe the most evaluated and representative score using these brass approaches?

I'm testing a TC System 6000. You can easily change a "simple" sampler into a BIG sampler. With it, you save time ... (but you don't save money).

[:P]

Hi Mathis,

First:
Thank you!

Second:
I would say that the most representative score (which uses "massive HZ brass") was done with "Project Peacemaker" or "The Peacemaker" - different titles in the USA and Europe).
Except "The Peacemaker" I also want to add the score of "The Rock", which was only produced by HZ. Of course you find HZ's brass setups in all of his modern scores, except on "The Matchstick Man".
Oh, yes - and don't forget "Gladiator", but have in mind that he made use of different settings on every score. (In Gladiator you hear a lot of real brass - only with a little tweaking.) - Hope that's the right voc for it. [:)]

On inquires, I will post again a short "HZ bass" reply at the end of this week.
Hopefully ... [:D]

Best wishes,
Hans-Peter

Oh yes! TC offers a lot of little cheap systems. [:)]
To be serious ... I'm sure it's an outstanding system, but only suited for people who have a large - a very large budget.
I'm not a member of this group. [8-)]

Best wishes,
Hans-Peter

Oh, before I forget my "little" problem:
Does anybody know great studiomonitors which are suited for serious work and orchestral stuff?
Till yet, I've considered the "Mackie HR824" or the "Mackie HR624".
I don't like the sound of Genelecs, so I thought that would be the best descision.
What do you mean?
Are there better studiomonitors in that price-class out there?
Maybe you can help me ... currently I'm using M-Audio SP-5B.
Here are some demos of my work to give you an impression of what kind of monitors I'm working with:

Here is the link: http://homepage.mac.com/the_maestro2k/FileSharing2.html

It sounds great on the monitors but ... guess ... it doesn't sound great on other speakers.

Thank you!

Hans-Peter