Mixing hints for strings

[Dietz]

Many people ask this, looking for "lush" strings (whatever that may be). - Hi Lamont, this thread is for you, too! ;-]

From my experience, strings are always something very special to deal with engineering-wise, mostly due to the socio-acoustic expectations listeners have with them. Strings per se are able to produce _very_ un-smooth listening experiences, so we have to make them "smooth" - even more if the recordings are very pure and un-altered.

The most important way is to deal with the sonic appearance of the string-section _arrangementwise_ (... the big "lushness" everybody seems to expect "built in" to a string section is mainly proper voicing and dynamics) - but this is something I won't cover here. What _we_ can do with the sound is some clever EQ'ing, and dealing with room and reverb.

If you want to make the strings less "direct", more "easy": well, I'd try to drop a range (using a Q of about one octave) around 3.700 Hz for 3 to 4 dB, especially with the violins. Another range to loose the "squeek"-factor (no real term, but you get the message) is around 2.500 Hz - just experiment a bit. - Arrangements with little harmonic change or an emphasis on a certain note tend to develop an annoying preponderance of some few resonances (or harmonics). Very often, I cut these resonances in the range between 1.5 to 4.5 kHz with a very sharp peak-EQ (smaller than 1/10 of an octave), not seldom as much as 8 to 12 dB. (The same is true with voices, BTW).

Another way to "lighten" up the string section is to use a little more reverb for them - maybe even a dedicated reverb. This is something you would find on "real" recordings, too. Just make sure that the reverb you employ is not too "muddy" (not too much low-mids - use an EQ for the reverb-return, if you like), yet not too shrill. - A well-kept secret is to modulate the _send_ into this dedicated reverb just a little bit, on behalf of chorusing or harmonizing, to make the resulting reverb-tail even more interesting and animated, while not disturbing the direct signal with artificial side effects.

All that is just a starting-point for your own action, but I hope you get the idea.

All the best, and have your own findings posted, please! :-]

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Edited for typos ...]

[lamontg]

Dietz,
I appreciate your reply and opening this new thread in this forum. I will try some of your recommendations on EQ. I am working under the Logic 6 Platinum environment and its plug-ins. I have not been over-whelmingly impressed with the new SpaceDesigner -- probably more my ability to tweak it at this time. I have actually had more luck with some of the other Logic 6 reverbs and stereo delays to create some of the smoothness you are talking about.
I have noticed a lot of references to AltiVerb in the forums but do not have it (currently). Has anyone had any success with the standard Logic 6 plugins for created some of the smoothness and lightness you have mentioned -- and might be willing to share some starting points for settings.
In the meantime, I will try your EQ recommendations Dietz.
Thanks!
-Lamont

[lamontg]

Hello Dietz,
I did want to mention that I am not necessarily wanting to destroy the sonic purity of the Opus strings -- my desire for strings that sound more natural and pure was part of the reason I purchased Opus 1. However, where I find the cello and bass strings to be quite beautiful with very little care to reverb and EQ, I have found the sustained violin ensembles to be coarse. The best way I know to describe this coarseness (or harshness as mentioned in the other forum) is as though the bow is slowly plowing its way through the strings.
I will try some of your recommendations and report back.
Thanks! -Lamont

[unconscious sound]

Hi everyone. Dietz, is it generally best to apply the EQ before or after the reverb on the strings send?

[mike harper]

thanks for this post i will try it asap !! good for us ENG newbies.
now how do you get that big far sound in "air force one" without
sounding canned??

regards

[Dietz]

To unconscious sound -

EQ, compression and the like is typically applied _before_ reverberation, if you work with the classic Aux-Send-scheme (i.e., the FX-signal is generated from a multitude of "dry" channels and added to them afterwards). - You _could_ use EQ and dynamic processors after the reverb if you would opt for an "Insert FX"-way of adding it to the signal. For professional work, this is not exactly wrong, but certainly unusual.


To Mike Harper -

Uh - the answer is more difficult than actually doing it ... if you're talking about the "Airforce One Theme"-demo on our site, I would have to ask Mr. Jerry Goldsmith (who wrote it), Mr. Herb Tucmandl (who programmed it) and Mr. Mal Luker (who mixed it on his SSL) ...

Maybe you get hold of this stick on the wrong end - but sometimes it helps _a lot_ to have things done by professionals .... 8-/

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[PaulR]

@lamontg said:

I have not been over-whelmingly impressed with the new SpaceDesigner -- probably more my ability to tweak it at this time. I have actually had more luck with some of the other Logic 6 reverbs and stereo delays to create some of the smoothness you are talking about.
I have noticed a lot of references to AltiVerb in the forums but do not have it (currently). -Lamont

Hello Lamont,

How are things in Tennessee. We have just gone to one Mac G5 and have been experimenting with Space Designer. Compared to the previous reverb, which we still have, SD is actually seriously impressive.
However, I'm not sure that reverb, or indeed Altiverb will necessarily give you the effect you desire. We were discussing this harshnees issue re: strings the other day actually, especially at the top end, because of your previous topic.
One way around it, may simply be to push the strings further back in the mix, at the point where they become a little harsh. Reverb can certainly be part of that. You could also augment the sound with something like Atmosphere, which has that sort of analogue type warmth.

There is also a thing called Assimilator, which is part of the TC Powercore system. This allows you to A/B the EQ if you will, from a CD of your choice. So, if you like, say the string sound for instance, of a certain piece that is similar to what your'e trying to achieve, this piece of kit gives you a good reference point from which to start.

Appologies if you have already thought of all this and all the best.

Paul

[Fred Story]

@Dietz said:

Many people ask this, looking for "lush" strings (whatever that may be).

The most important way is to deal with the sonic appearance of the string-section _arrangementwise_ (... the big "lushness" everybody seems to expect "built in" to a string section is mainly proper voicing and dynamics) - but this is something I won't cover here. /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Edited for typos ...]

To amplify this point, I read an article recently about mic selection for orchestral sessions. It featured one of the engineers at Air Lyndhurst in London. (Forgive me for forgetting names.)

After covering a lot of specifics about which mics and placement they use to acheive that gorgeous sound (and of course that HALL doesn't hurt), he told a story about two different sessions they did in the same week.

On the first session, everyone agreed that the sound was magic. In fact, they couldn't believe how rich and lush the orchestra sounded. They were so blown away they took careful notes on exact mic choice and placement.

For the second session, they meticulously recreated this setup, and were completely disappointed when the sound didn't even come close to first session. No matter what they did, they just couldn't get that sound back.

Then the same composer was back later in the week for pickups from the first session, and bang...the sound returned.

It was then they realized - it wasn't the mics or the room. It was exactly what Dietz mentioned...the voicings and dynamics in the orchestra. It all begins with the composition and great orchestration.

I filed this article away and read it several times. It's a great reminder of where it all starts.

Orchestral players know this, too. When I did a session with the London Symphony I overheard some of the musicians talking about a particularly enjoyable session they'd done recently. They all agreed, The thing that made it so enjoyable was how fine the orchestrations were. (Which of course, made me sweat whether MY stuff was going to pass muster.)

Fred Story

[Nick Batzdorf]

@Another User said:

A well-kept secret is to modulate the _send_ into this dedicated reverb just a little bit, on behalf of chorusing or harmonizing, to make the resulting reverb-tail even more interesting and animated, while not disturbing the direct signal with artificial side effects.

Very well kept! Higher-end Lexicons have a parameter called Spin, which choruses the tail to smooth it out, and flanging the whole reverb is an old rock effect, but I hadn't thought of chorusing the send. Great tip.

[Dietz]

:-] ... from the bottom of my tool-box!

/Dietz

[Peter Roos]

Is this teechnique seriously also used for recording traditional orchestral music? Curious! [:)]

[Dietz]

It depends! 8-]

If you talk to engineers with an dogmatic/puristic background, they will of course quaver with disgust. - OTOH, there are ruthless people like me following the "If it sounds right, it _is_ right!"-approach, doing things like this (and even stranger ones) pretty often.

Sound is not only science; it is an art, too.

****

.... a sidenote: Even the "puristic" guys have a dark corner within their shining souls where the dirty tricks reside - until nobody is watching! [6] (Yes, I know what I'm talking about ...)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

[Audun Jemtland]

hehe [:D] ....One question though. Where do you apply these Hz settings? I haven't purchased any reverbs programs yet...

[Dietz]

These settings were meant to be applied within a channel-EQ, i.e. an insert (be it hardware or a plug-in).

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

(Edited for typos, as always ... [8-)] )

[KMuzzey]

Dietz, you rock. Thanks for the tips!!

[YWT]

Thanks, Dietz!
That is exactly what i am searching for.
Many Thanks

/YWT