It's not that those who place themselves "opposition" to him will feel offended. Rather, it's those who feel uncertain about their own methods. Those who sit in the opposite (or an opposing) camp can argue their points intelligently, and back them up with experience. Sorry that wasn't too clear. Writing is a difficult business... it's so inflexible once on the page (or "v-page").

James.

A quick clarification...

I am never in opposition to anyone else's methods. And I'm certainly confident enough in my own methods not to be offended if someone questions them. They've worked pretty well for me over almost 25 years of composing for hire. (I'm also not too old to learn new methods when I think they'll help make my music better.) I've simply tried to point out one fact: Saying (in so many words), "If you use any other method than mine your music can never be meaningful." is rude, insulting and shows a lack of respect for one's peers.

Nor have I ever implied that anyone is naive for employing their particular methods. What's naive is to imply to a group of peers that if you DON'T use a certain method you're a sellout, and you bascially suck...then be surprised that people are upset by this.

You know, I could really care less, and I'm a little embarrased that I let myself get embroiled in some of the silliness. But rudeness is my particular hot button. I think anonymity and self-absorption are eroding our civility, and I find myself compelled to speak up. I'm one of those weird people that responds to public rudeness by smiling and saying, (kind of like I did in my first post to Evan) "You seem like a nice person, so I know you didn't mean for that to sound rude, did you?" But I realize my efforts fell on deaf ears. Ah well, nobody made me the civility cop. But, most people, when confronted politely with their boorish behavior, usually apologize for - or at least acknowledge- the misunderstanding. They don't write volumes trying to justify it.

I'm probably old enough be Evan's dad. He has a LOT of stuff on the ball, and could probably BE the guiding light he seems so desperately to WANT to be...if only he didn't posess (in the words of an earlier post) - the unique ability to piss people off. Who knows, maybe I felt compelled to try and teach him the important lesson my mother taught me. Tact. But, I'm certainly NOT his dad...hell, I don't even know him. Geez, what WAS I thinking, anyway?

Anyway, on a deadline. Back to work.

Fred Story

Sticking to ones ethics is ok with me - but where would you draw the line to trade libel ...?

/Dietz

Hey guys, I gotta run and pick up my son. But this isall good, I think we are getting much closer to understanding one another. Now, enough about me! I made my point clear, offended people, justified my points, apologized to those I offended, and that's the best i can do. I do want to breifly make some nice comments about the last 4 posts when I get back to it tonight.

Until then, cheers, and thanks for keeping an open and discerning mind JBM!

Evan Evans

Amazing,

I've been away a bit and come back to the forum to find a contention between Mr. Evans and several members of the forum? Shocking! How did it ever happen? Unprecedented! I believe it's called "par for the course" in golf. Actually, as has been pointed out, there are some great tips in this thread. I examined the HOLeg2p today as a result of someone wanting to sneak it past St. Peter or something of the sort.

I don't think I can add much to so many very thoughtful posts which pretty much covered everything. jbm sure brought an inciteful fresh perspective that applied beautifully I thought.

No doubt there's a line somewhere between collage and composition and no doubt the practitioner knows what side he's living on. If I need a string run I'll start by creating it myself so as to control as many elements contained in the run as possible. The motivation here is the best result. If I find a sampled run that puts mine to shame I'll probably use it. But that would be rare because of tempo, lack of nuance, and so on. Or, maybe get a few live players and record/sample them.

Ethics doesn't enter in to my thinking because I have no insecurities as to whether I'm leaning on any crutches. I'm looking for a string run in my composition and I'm going to try to find one in the same spirit as a band leader looking for good players (who can execute his ideas.) It's about the music sounding as good as possible. Not about whether I played it, Herb played it, or I got someone else to play it. I'm not going to use an inferior presentation of an original musical idea if there is a better alternative.

A collage artist takes multiple pre-existing fragments and organizes them in some way. That's a far cry from a beat or two of sixteenth notes in an original composition (where even those very notes are original but merely executed better than MIDI control.) I don't think we have a lot of collage artists on the forum.

I prefer to create my own runs for the most part because the results are usually far superior. I also love the cresc. dim. performances because they are genuine with subtleties not found always with layers and mod wheels.

It's a subject I will never lose a bit of sleep over (even though I just managed to put myself to sleep with this intolerably boring post of mine.)

Dave Connor

@Another User said:

Ethics doesn't enter in to my thinking

Thinking doesn't enter into my ethics.

[6]

@Another User said:

Ethics doesn't enter in to my thinking

Thinking doesn't enter into my ethics.

[6]

That does it!

Another vicious attack on my character by Nick Batzdorf.

Well, I'm not going to pay any attention to someone who simulates room and hall sounds with artificial reverbs (collage!)

I'll stick with what the rest of us do: drag are cpu's down to the local Cathedral, play the track and capture the natural reverb on cassette recorder.

(stereo's not real either by the way)

Dave Connor

Dave, how do you know... [:O]ops:


(welcome back, I missed you!)

A flame war!

Cool. [:D]

@Nick Batzdorf said:

A flame war!Cool. [:D]

Ahhhh, Dave & Nick. You got Mathis all worried. Is'nt that nice [:P]

I forgot what I was gonna say now [:O]ops:

Later

mathis,

Not to worry. I know all things (related to car waxing.)
Now to listen to your work.

Paul,

Whatever you forgot to say: it better be good.

Nick,

I want you to get help.

DC

@dpcon said:

Paul,Whatever you forgot to say: it better be good.Nick,
I want you to get help.DC

It was something about The Beatles and a lady called Astrid. I've forgotton.

Nick is a Green, did you know that?

I'll get Natasha to wax your car Dave, no worries.

[:D]

I believe Nick Phoenix, the other Nick, is a Green. Ralph Nader hasn't been my favorite person recently, so I only eat greens. [:P]

@Nick Batzdorf said:

I believe Nick Phoenix, the other Nick, is a Green. Ralph Nader hasn't been my favorite person recently, so I only eat greens. [:P]

Thank Christ for that! You had me worried too!

[H]

@evanevans said:

Although nice guys finish last..."Evan Evans

Sorry, wrong again. The actual quote from baseball manager Leo Durocer was, "They're a bunch of nice guys, but I think they're going to finish last."

@musos said:

On the Mozart issue:
If he were alive today, he'd probably be using VSL and certainly would use the string runs and harp glisses as that would save him precious time in the bar or pool hall. I mean....damn....he'd dash off a movement as fast as possible just to get out the door and go and get legless.

How can we possibly respect someone with a substance abuse problem like that? If Mozart admonished me, I'd laugh at him.

Bach however would be a different matter.......

Colin [[;)]]

If he were alive today and working in Los Angeles, he'd have to use VSL because so many budgets are being cut, especially TV, that there's not enough money IN the budget to hire anyone outside the composer and the engineer.

If Mozart were working in Los Angeles (which I do) he would probably be broke, in anguish, and feeling like he was about to keel over (did he sense this early death?)

I somehow feel able to speak for him as I am born 200 years exactly from him (within a few hours) have an identical birth chart, and even had a crowd of people gather around me, so strikingly similar is my profile to his. T-shirts with huge embossed head shots of Beethoven and Mozart being sold in the lobby of a Los Angeles Philharmonic concert: Zubin Mehta's 60th birthday celebration - Berg Vln Cto., Mahler 6th (two of my favorite pieces.) I was staring at the Mozart and a dear old saleslady was staring at me. She shrieked and gathered everyone around. I was actually a little shaken by that.

I do share at least one gift of the great master: versatility (which could mean I can do both polka and disco.) I did recently discover I compose in the same manner (Mozart would write what he knew he wanted in any given part to its end and then go back and write the other parts with and around it. Maybe that's why his melodies are so unhampered and his music "fits" so.)

Just a little silliness on the...

Very Silly Long threads forum.


Dave Connor

sheesh. . .leave town for 3 days and come back to find this monster still raging.

and to think that all i wanted was a pepsi.

Dave,

What have you been smoking? (And where can I get some?)

Ironic that this extremely l - o - n - g thread started about PICCOLO ornaments, don't you think?

BTW get over there to those user demos immediately! Or it's no more long-winded responses to Korngold posts for you!

Let's hope nobody inquires about tuba ornaments...