@evanevans said:

PaulR and William,

Got some more done on FEAR OF CLOWNS. Here are bars 1 through 22 as they stand now. There is still some missing Cello stuff, and ContraBass Trombone, as well as some unvoiced harmonies.

FEAR OF CLOWNS - 1M1 Main Titles "Clown Macabre" (Bars 1 - 22; 70%)

Evan Evans

Sounds nice Evan, kind of reminded me of a cross between psycho and the Sandcrawler cues from starwars.

Evan,
Sounds bizarre and really good - disjointed, insane. Just what a horror film called "Fear of Clowns" needs. What the hell is that about anyway?

Marc,
I am an extreme Chaplin admirer, so I get defensive very easily. Maybe he didn't do so much on the actual composition of the music - according to Dave it sounds like some was ghost written. It is probably impossible to tell for certain at this time. But I really like the melodies he was at least partly responsible for, especially in City Lights.

@evanevans said:

PaulR and William,
Got some more done on FEAR OF CLOWNS. Here are bars 1 through 22 as they stand now. There is still some missing Cello stuff, and ContraBass Trombone, as well as some unvoiced harmonies.Evan Evans

Hehe Evan. Thats very good. Very good. And it sounds good. I can see what you mean about cellos and the trom the coming in there somewhere. Doesn't remind me of anything actually. Unvoiced harmonies at the end of these bars presumably. Your'e working too slowly my friend. Quicker, please, quicker.

Bill, I think it's about head-chopping and horror genre stuff like that. We had all that here in the sixteenth century, only for real. Got quite expert at it actually. Herrrummmph!

Evan, I must share this. Today, I went to see a guy. A client. I get into his house and sit down. There is music playing on the stereo. I say, 'thats good playing'. He replies, ' Yeah, it's called Undercurrent by Bill Evans. I say, mater-of-factly, Oh yeah, I know his boy. After that, I get the royal treatment, you know, lunch, the whole thing. I'm thinking, good 'ol Evan. Anyway, I leave 2 hours later and am driving through very narrow country lanes. I stop suddenly at a sort of crossroads, via some kind of esp thing, and a second later, a huge great coach goes goes hairing by with the word CARMEL on it's side. Must have beee the name of the coach company. Weird! Dave and Bill will tell you, I'm pretty down to earth and not given to weirdness, but f**k me. [[:|]] Not the place to write this, so appologies in advance.

Later

Paul

Thanks James and William,

Although most people will want to say it's another cool movie about a killer clown, it really is much more than that, even though that really is enough for it to be great anyway! I'll do anything to watch a killer clown movie!

A psychologist plots to have his soon to be divorced from wife murdered to cash out a life insurance policy he took out on her, by cohersing and convincing one of this most deranged patients that doing so will make him "BETTER". Lynn, the wife, suffered the loss of her parents in a traumatic accident coming back home from a Carnival in her early repressed youth. Ever since she exorcises her inner demons by painting extraordinary abstract art with scary clowns and circus themes. Little did the psychologist realize exactly HOW deranged this patient was as he takes the instruction to scare her at first by dressing up as a scary clown. He winds up going on a rampage, with the Husband getting more and more backed into his own criminal corner as the murder spree escalates. Trying to make things right, the husband hires another contract killer, but things just get even worse. To top it all off Lynn gets her first commission order to paint this old man's father who was a clown, but she is being traumatized but needs the money to pay for the representation to get custody of her kid before her husband does. Somewhere in there her assistant late at night finds out something dastardly about this old man, and perhaps his SON?, on the internet, and emails the gallery curator in her last heroic effort .... with her head on her shoulders .... LITERALLY!

The clown wields a medieval axe and generally takes over the movie with his unnerving presence and deadly insanity.

It's also a special ode to 80s horror films like NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET, HALLOWEEN, and FRIDAY THE 13th, but luckily it is more 2000-esque and only pokes fun at that sub-genre. It is smart, and well done, but ... let's be honest, it's also not a Warner Bros. film. But neither was Halloween. It's a good film.

The director's first film was HUNTING HUMANS, regarded as my best score, which I agree on. This is his second film, and I am loving the direction the score is going. I just hope HE LIKES IT!!!

Not gonna show it to him until my main title cue is complete.

[:)]

Evan Evans

Evans, Your excerpt was done entirely with VSL ?

Which vsl samples you used for the brass part at the beginning ?

@PaulR said:

Your'e working too slowly my friend. Quicker, please, quicker.

I totally agree. Quicker, please! I want to hear the whole thing.

@Carter said:

Evans, Your excerpt was done entirely with VSL ?

Which vsl samples you used for the brass part at the beginning ?

Pretty much. i have programmed them a little differently to do more.

However, the brass at the beginning is Dan Dean Ambient Horns, but I layered all 8 velocity layers into a mod wheel controlled crossfading patch. I worked those curves to death. I even got them sounding better since then.

Everything else is VSL.

Believe it or not, the orchestration is what's really making things sound great here. I am only using a single Piccolo, Bass Clarinet, Contrabassoon, those horns, and Strings.

Oh, and I think I am using a Ultimate Percussion timpani, but I am about to change that to VSL anyway. it doesn't matter. it's just a timpani.

AND the Horns are both VSl and Dan Dean. I am writing for a double horn ensemble AS I ALWAYS DO. 12 Horns. 6 open, 6 muted. my trademark.

[:)]

Evan Evans

@Another User said:

Anyway, I leave 2 hours later and am driving through very narrow country lanes. I stop suddenly at a sort of crossroads, via some kind of esp thing, and a second later, a huge great coach goes goes hairing by with the word CARMEL on it's side. ... but f**k me. [[:|]]

Ha ha. That's great. And also I dine frequently in a part of Carmel here called, THE CROSSROADS!

[:)]

Evan Evans

Updated, more complete PDF of FEAR OF CLOWNS - Score Concept:
FEAR OF CLOWNS - Score Concept

Evan Evans

One thing I noticed on Evan's score here and the Hunting Humans was the care taken to get a lot of smaller cresc/dim changes, just for phrasing rather than obvious big crescendos, etc. Like at the end of a phrase, or the beginning, that doesn't use a notated crescendo but the line benefits immensely from those small dynamic changes. You almost never hear that with sampler performances. That kind of detail creates more expression as well as realism than maybe anything else (aside from basic good samples).

@William said:

One thing I noticed on Evan's score here and the Hunting Humans was the care taken to get a lot of smaller cresc/dim changes, just for phrasing rather than obvious big crescendos, etc.

Thats exactly what I meant by the 'sound' Bill. Completely agree.

Evan, your'e going to have a really hard job trying to find that Calliope sample. I had another cursory look yesterday in Bristol, but no luck. You may have to do a lot of sound editing, or use another type of 'carousel' type sample. However, without wanting to influence your decisions or work in any way, that might be a bit cliche. Anyway, it is very interesting watching this unfold, but spend less time in The Crossroads diner and spend more time getting it done. [:)]

Later

Paul

Paul,

Yeah, I am gonna fly down to LA and record a real one.

Mostly I have been trying to get this Main Titles done so that I have my template setup. So last night for instance I spent 1 hour building a timpani from VSL timp hits.

Today I finished the orchestration for bars 1 through 22. That might not sound like progress because I haven't got past bar 22, but actually it's a lot of work establishing the orchestrational colors. And anyway, I have laid down some future bars that will connect with the piece "in due time". I hope to have this Main Title done in 3 days.

So here's the latest version, the final version of 1M1 Main Titles:
"Fear of Clowns" 1M1 Main Titles (bars 1-22)

You'll note the addition of two piatti players. That's the last of any further colors i needed. I really needed an instrument that would go crunch and meld with frenzied picc and violins. Piatti is what I chose.

I have further bars worked out I am just not happy with the ideas. So I am gonna rewrite bars 23-39 today and tomorrow.

The Calliope is gonna work brilliantly. It might be cliché, but I don't think it will have ever been used the way i am using it. It's not gonna be Goldsmith's "The Haunting", I can assure you. it will be tastier.

[[;)]]

Evan Evans

Sounds good as usual Evan.

"The Haunting" remake is a piece of shit that should have resulted in criminal charges for all those involved. I spit on anyone who takes a masterpiece of cinema and turns it into garbage for money.

The original film is a brilliant use of suggestion, without any special effects, directed by Robert Wise who based his subtle and nerve-wracking style on his experiences with Val Lewton - who made the greatest purely psychological horror films - in the forties. It also has a fantastic partly atonal score by Humphrey Searle, a great British composer, that puts to shame most of the Dolby enhanced musical nonsense that is so common today.

"The Haunting" i.e. the modern version: is that the one with Owen Wilson and I think Catherine Zeta Jones?

Dave Connor

Evan,

Just heard "Clowns" - terrific. Gorgeous opening chord sequence and wonderfully orchestrated. Very funky evil groove as well that overlays Alex North winds onto tritone changes and Prokofiev piano licks. Loved the slides in the brass and detail of the production. Very, very, good and I don't mean to suggest pastiche, I just hear your influences. It's your own music and quite good and extremely well executed.

Your use of 12 Fr Hrns (half muted): Do you sound them together at times? Or is that just for passing between them quickly? What muted horns are those btw? Dan Dean? SAM?


Dave Connor

@Another User said:

Your use of 12 Fr Hrns (half muted): Do you sound them together at times? Or is that just for passing between them quickly? What muted horns are those btw? Dan Dean? SAM?
Dave Connor

They are the Dan Dean. As you may or may not have noticed/gathered from my previous posts, I am bit of a purist with my own standards. One of them is to treat the virtual orchestra with exactly the same respect you'd treat a real orchestra. So ... depending on the passage, I would use the Horns back and forth mostly so i can have MORE horns without breaks, but also can do any of the following combinations:

Solo Horn
6 Horns (open OR muted)
12 Horns (open OR muted)
6 Horns Open THEN other 6 Horns Open
6 Horns Muted THEN other 6 Horns Muted
6 Horns Muted AND other 6 Horns Open

You can do some fast open Muted Question Answer motivic writing and they don't get tired at all. The embouchure would get destroyed if open and muted was going back and forth between same Horn. Also, the extra time in between while the other guys are playing lets blood flow back into the lips and allows them to play fortissimo longer, if not almost for endless periods (if orchestrated well).

I come from a classical film score background so it all is from the perspective of real organic performance. I adjust notes to create certain grooves. i do not quantize a single note. i play every passage separately. I adjust the notes in microns to achieve the groove I am looking for. my early corporate gigs helped me learn how to create grooves with MIDI.

All in all, I approach the process as a combined Composer, Conductor, Orchestrator, Copyist, Recording Engineer, Producer, Mastering Engineer. Interesting thing is that I have spent at least 2 to 4 years professionally as each of those things, so I really do garner those different wisdoms as I create. Herrmann always drew microphone diagrams for his engineers, and of course did reverse tape recording before ANYONE ever did because he understood the mechanics. Having a grasp on the whole entire process can only help your creative landscape and strategy.

Evan Evans

@evanevans said:

Paul,

The Calliope is gonna work brilliantly. It might be cliché, but I don't think it will have ever been used the way i am using it. It's not gonna be Goldsmith's "The Haunting", I can assure you. it will be tastier.[[;)]]Evan Evans

Evan,

Sorry. Didn't mean to make it sound like that. My fault. No, what I meant was a 'carousel' type sound might be a bit hacked. A calliope, well, that maybe quite another thing. I've just listened to the updated opening and it sounds excellent. Very good sound. Presumably your'e not going to record this later with a 'real' orchestra. If you can get that sound, whats the point anyway. Looking forward to some more. Very interesting and this forum becomes great fun and very interesting (hopefully without seeming overly voyeuristic) with something like this going on. As an aside, this is a G5 with which sequencer? And also, is this the 'new' Dan Dean horns along with the VSL horns? [H]

Gentlemen,

The Haunting from the early sixties (1963??) with Claire Bloom and Julie Harris is terrific in my view. Very scary, especially when the banging starts on the bedroom door. Still have troube watching that on a cold, dark winter's night, when everyone's gone to bed. Brrrrrrr! Humphrey Searle. What a memory Bill! I think Russ Tamblyn was in that (Tom Thumb and later Twin Peaks). Robert Wise is a top-flight director and before he was directing he was maybe a film editor/cutter(???)

The Haunting remake..... Christ Almighty. Catherine Zeta Jones. Thats right Dave. I won't say anymore, or I'll probably get sued for being on the same planet, or breathing, or ruining her marriage photos or anything. Another remake in 1971/72 is The Legend of Hell House with Roddy McDowell and Gayle Hunnicut. Thats all I can remember about it, except I think it was shite (probably).

Another one from that period that is worth watching and listening out for when it comes to scoring might be The Innocents, with Deborah Kerr's almost neurotic performance, and direction by Jack Clayton. Based on the Henry James story 'The Turn of the Screw'; not to be watched alone if your'e of a nervous disposition. Great film!

The Haunting and The Innocents have no real special effects in them as such, and are both in Black and White photography. Colour film just wouldn't have been the same. Thats often forgotten in the 'modern' era in my view. Same with Psycho. Can you imagine that in colour? Conversely, can you imagine Rear Window in black and white? It may be a cost thing, but nowadays there doesn't seem to be a choice, although now and again, one sees the 'sepia' type effect such as in Sleepy Hollow.

Bottom line is, score writers write scores. Directors make films. One can have a crap film and a good score. Thats life, and the score writer just does his or her job, usually at the end of everything else.

Later

Paul

@PaulR said:

[ And also, is this the 'new' Dan Dean horns along with the VSL horns? [H]

Sorry. Check that. I was thinking of Kirk Hunters Virtuoso Series Orchestral Brass Ensembles. My mistake. [:O]ops:

I agree with Evan on treating the virtual orchestra seriously - in fact, you can treat it MORE SERIOUSLY than a live orchestra, contrary to what many people believe because you simply are not allowed to do to a live orchestra what you can do to a sampled one - go over and over a passage to the point of psychopathology to get it right.

Also with Paul that this is very interesting way of working - it could be inspiring to some composers and generate more enthusiasm in the middle of a project though to others it could be damaging to the process.

however Paul - no, No, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!

"Legend of Hell House" is not bad at all - it is Richard Matheson's excellent riff on The Haunting, and very atmospheric and well done. Also it has an extremely effective analog synth score - very subtle, not at all 70s though the film was made in 75 - with a few orchestral sounds integrated like horns playing open to stopped on one note and a contrabass clarinet.

Though you are very right Paul about "The Haunting" original and "The Innocents" - two of the high water marks for horror films. Also black and white - it has been pointed out that black and white affects the mind differently than color, and is especially suited to psychological horror due to its abstraction of reality, contrasted to color's more ordinary replication of it.