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  • Elgar's Nimrod

    Hello, I have recently received the complete orchestral package (1st edition) and have been learning a lot since then about sampling. I am completely new to sampling and quite new to midi sequencing as well. I thought it might be a good idea to first try out all this new equipment and samples with a classic piece. I decided on Elgar's Nimrod from the Enigma Variations. I completed it and would like to receive feedback regarding any issue of the final result. All constructive criticism is welcome. I used Gigastudio and Cubase SX.

    Thanks

    here is the link for the mp3: http://www.soulwax.net/aaron/Bales,%20Aaron%20-%20Elgar%20-%20Nimrod-mix3.mp3">http://www.soulwax.net/aaron/Bales,%20Aaron%20-%20Elgar%20-%20Nimrod-mix3.mp3

  • How recently did you receive it?
    If you accomplished that without any help, you are good!
    Did you get any help and are you a newbie?

    Good arrangement! I haven't heard the original but I bet it sounds just like this [:D]

    What kind of reverb did you use?

    Make one song composed by yourself. You mastered this song perfectly with reverb and just everything! And I would love to hear one of your OWN songs.

    deal? [:D]

  • Now had a chance to listen to this on a decent set of speakers and allowing for the artefacts of MP3 encoding it was a pleasing mix to my ear.

    Firstly thanks for sharing this on the forum.

    Secondly this is an excellent first attempt for someone new to both Sampling and Sequencing.

    Overall I thought the working was perhaps a little tight - still has a bit of a step recorded feeling - Midi files of Elgar's work are quite popular with those of David Sui and George Pollen probably being the best but even these need quite a lot of re-working when working with the likes of VSL.

    As a general tip I would say never use velocity where expression should be used and never use the faders where velocity and expression should be used.

    On the mix - there was a little clipping (this might be an MP3 artifact or not allowing enough headroom) - Woodwinds were a little shrill (EQ will help there).

    Midi files are a good place to start getting your head around VSL and learning what it is capable of.

    I am not sure what Elgar or for that matter Sir Henry Wood (who popularised the piece) would think but I enjoyed it.

    Again thanks for sharing

    tattie

  • Thanks for the feedback.

    In response to Audun Jemtland. I recieved VSL a few months ago, but had to shop for all the gear and software to go with it, so that took a while. When I was ready I started with Nimrod. So, yes, I am a newbie. The reverb I used was whatever the default reverb is in Cubase SX (reverb A). And yes, I am going to be working on original music with VSL very shortly.

    tattie - I agree with your assesment, ill try to work on the suggestions you made. I fixed the clipping near the end, that was my fault, im still getting used to the Cubase mixer.

    Can tattie or anyone else let me know where I can find good midi files of classic works?

    Anyways, thanks for the comments thus far!

    Aaron

  • Awesome1

    I think AltiVerb would have fixed many problems here. yep. That would be the big thing that could push this over the edge in realism. it would fix that nasty brass quality as well. Remember to run AltiVerb 100% wet.

    Evan Evans

  • Aaron,

    My personal favourite sites for Midi files of classic music are:

    http://www.polleng.freeserve.co.uk/midi.html

    http://www.classicalmidiconnection.com/cmc/impress.html

    I have no idea of the depth of your musical knowledge & experience so please forgive me if there is an element of teaching you to suck eggs (UK expression) in what follows – perhaps others might find it useful.

    With a few exceptions nearly all midi files (professional or otherwise) are step recorded with Midi “Normal” fixed note lengths, velocity set at 64 and more often than not with a fixed tempo throughout.

    Midi files are a great place to start – ‘Loosening them up’ as I call it, whilst laborious when you first start, is something that soon becomes second nature and over time you will instantly know what to change and how to do it.

    Applications like Cubase and Logic etc have built in functions and tools such as drawing a curve over Velocity and the ability to change the midi clock value of notes etc which are of great benefit during this process – in practising these techniques you will get to the depths of your application and perhaps find it useful for your own compositions.

    {And despite what some purists might think – playing with Midi files is an excellent method of increasing your musical vocabulary and your ability to compose and arrange your own pieces – what you see and the changes you have to make will only add to your knowledge}

    What I tell my students to do (and indeed do myself) is get the score of the original piece and work with the two in parallel. Most of the most popular scores are often available at larger libraries in some countries and those that are copy write free (50 years after the composers death in the UK) can be copied and kept.

    If you don’t yet read music – it really won’t take you long to learn – it is a comparatively easy language – Don’t confuse learning to play an instrument (difficult) with learning to read music (easy).

    Tip. Learn a scale in one key and the rules for transposing rather than trying to learn them all by heart.

    Apart from the common problems of fixed note length, fixed tempo and set velocities you will often find that the arrangement in lot of Midi files is musically wrong for working with samples.

    Midi files are largely for Synths and there is tendency is to thicken the piece up by simply copying of tracks to another timbre (voice) often transposing in whole octave steps -- rather than transposing the voice to the correct compass of the instrument.

    With VSL you will need to consider this to get the correct sound – such pure samples are very unforgiving of errors such as these and the result is often a muddy or poor mix.

    There is a host of other support material available – my personal favourites are The Fundamentals Of Music and Arranging Techniques for Synthesizers and Samplers. I will dig out the ISBN numbers and post them later.

    Fundamentals Of Music (first published in the 1950s) is aimed at Piano Students in grades 1-12 – however it is excellently laid out and whether you are a novice or a professional with many years of experience provides an instant ready reference to subjects such as Harmony, Structure, Cadences and instrument compasses.

    Arranging Techniques – goes a step further and walks you through common everyday techniques and some the more exotic ones. Additionally it contains listings and progressions in scales and chords and voicing techniques.


    Whoops got to do this post in two parts.

  • Part 2

    Combined these books (or a similar selection) will give you all the practical background information you need.

    In addition they contain information on how to make useful tools and aids to memory, Such as Key Change (modulation) wheels and Transposing Tools – I have worked with some world-class composers and nearly all of then use such tools daily. You may find that your local music shop has ready-made tools in stock.

    Evan’s post about reverb and Altiverb in particular are very relevant. Reverb and EQ are key tools in mixing. I am not saying rush out and buy any particular Reverb but it might be worth looking around.

    Mixing and mastering tips and advice can be given but you are more likely to develop your own knowledge and indeed your own sound by messing around.

    tattie

  • Sibelius is great for loosening up performances. You can set the expressivo to various different settings (from Meccanico to Molto Espressivo), and this will affect the output. If you export the files as MIDI you can then make the most of this espressivo.

    Therefore to loosen up Standard MIDI files downloaded it might be worth importing them to Sibelius (if you have it), and then exporting them as MIDI. Of course, the more expression marking (hairpins, dynamics etc.) the better it sounds, but it also does rudimentary volume adjustments on phrases without any dynamic indications.

    Hope that helps.

    Nick.