Protools and Motu MachFive compatability

[jonnyblue1979]

Hi,

I am running Protools LE 6.1 with Motu Machfive on a Mac G5 10.3. I was wondering would I be able use VSL and the Performance tool with this set up.

I am very new to Recording on Computers, this is my very first set up, so please ignore my lack of knowledge if this is a stupid question.

Please reply as soon as you can if you have the answer as I am anxious to get VSL as soon as possible. The demos sound amazing.

Thanks in advance

[tattie]

Jonnyblue,

In theory (and according to MOTU information) the M5 should be able to read both EXS and Giga samples.

Several VSL users have, to varying levels success, translated the library to other 3rd party samplers such as Halion and Kontact. As far as the M5 goes you would need to find someone who has done this to gauge how good it is at translating VSL.

There are immediate problems you should be aware of:

1. VSL uses extensive mapping techniques and these don’t always translate well.
2. Several instruments and their articulations make use of the ‘built-in’ functions of the EXS or Gigasampler – these may or may not be available on the M5.

The overall structure and naming convention of VSL is such that you can re-map the samples to just about any sampler if you have the time and inclination.

The Performance Tool question.

In the EXS version these are ‘built-in’ to the sampler itself. So you would need that sampler to use this version.

The Gigasampler version is a stand-alone application that acts as an additional midi layer.

Broadly the Performance Tools work by issuing key-switching commands to the sampler to select the correct articulated sample – this requires extensive mapping.

In theory it should be possible to use the Giga version with other samplers, providing the ‘Instrument’ has been translated correctly.

There are several posts throughout the whole forum on the possible future availability of the library formatted for other samplers. To date no firm commitment or dates have been given by VSL.

VSL have two extensive projects already underway – The Symphonic Cube and the MIR project and I would hazard a guess that if they were to adopt another sampler format it would more likely be one of the better-established alternatives.

Additionally I note that you are using PT LE – in the longer term this might be a limitation on the complexity of music you may want to produce. PT LE’s channel limitation of 32 channels and its rather pedestrian midi implementation it is likely to be the cause of much frustration.

I am an established PT LE and PT user and it is ‘king’ in a lot of areas – working with extensive soft-sampler tracks is not one of them.

In the short-term I would recommend that you look at Emagic’s Logic, as this would probably be the lowest cost path of getting to use VSL.

It would probably better protect your investment to date. – Particularly if you have plans to upgrade to the full version of PT (TDM) at a future date. Then you could use the TDM Bridge and bring the EXS direct to the heart of PT’s TDM engine.

Logic will also front-end PT hardware in some cases – Note: the Digi 01 and 02 can be front ended under OS9 as yet I have seen no ASIO or AU driver to do this under OSX – but it is early days.

Going down the Giga route you would need to giga-up a PC and use it as a virtual instrument - then work out some midi routing to be able to use the Performance Tools.

As your adventure into producing music using computers advances, you will probably find that you will end up with a wide range of soft-samplers – each has its own unique strengths and weaknesses.


tattie

[Nick Batzdorf]

Is the MacFive with disk streaming even out yet? If not, that would stop the show before you even start.

In any case, I personally wouldn't buy the VSL with the intention of converting it, if for no other reason than that you'll be at it for weeks and weeks due to the sheer size of the library. If I were using Performer, I'd buy the Giga version and run it on relatively cheap PCs.

Different people have different priorities, though, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

[dot]

@Nick Batzdorf said:

Is the MacFive with disk streaming even out yet? If not, that would stop the show before you even start.

In any case, I personally wouldn't buy the with the intention of converting it, if for no other reason than that you'll be at it for weeks and weeks due to the sheer size of the library. If I were using Performer, I'd buy the Giga version and run it on relatively cheap PCs.

Different people have different priorities, though, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

As to the streaming, 4GB+ in a G5 means streaming isn't really a show-stopper (Jonnyblue IS running on a G5).

But I agree with Nick & Tattie: I wouldn't "plan my battle" based on using VSL over Mach5 -- certainly not the Performance Tool aspect of VSL. I've been too busy to play with Mach5 much. If your immediate objective were bragging rights, you could pull off a VSL import into Mach5 (I think someone here has, but don't remember who); but if you are trying to go straight to rendering a musical project using VSL samples over the Mach5 sampler, I would predict the extra distraction to be frustrating. That's my personal guesstimate, anyway.

Best wishes -- dot

[evan evans]

Keep your current machine running Performer and use the G5 as a Logic/EXS/VSl softsynth piped over mLan or an audio interface and via MIDI.

My two cents, to take with another grain of salt. (Boy this is getting rather over seasoned [:)] )

Evan Evans

[Nick Batzdorf]

The problem is that you have to put bypassed I/O plug-ins on the Logic objects with the EXS24s on them if you want to access them from another computer (otherwise there's only one live EXS24). And even then you can only do that with 16 of them, and the latency is much worse.

Cubase can host dozens of VST instruments, but Logic isn't set up to do that - it expects you to be using EXS24 inside Logic. That's why I suggested adding Giga machines if he wants to use DP.

Finally, I wouldn't try to run the VSL from RAM. You get very few instruments out of one machine.

[tattie]

Jonnyblue,

Whilst all the posts on this thread are valid they are beginning to going off on a bit of a tangent.

I’m going to assume that you are using the RTAS version of the M5 and that your only Audio/Sequencing package is Pro-Tools LE and that you have a single G5 computer as per your original post.

If this is the case your best options are probably:

Logic and EXS (Integrates well with the G5 and Digi 01/02) – about US$ 750

PC* + Gigi 160 Card (and possibly Cubase SX) – about US$ 950 (without Cubase SX)

* you don’t need a high power PC – something mid range with 512M ram + will do.


Come back with more questions etc.

tattie

[jonnyblue1979]

Thanks for all the advice.....some confusing but some very good thanks all. One more question. If I was to get Logic 6 and the ESX 24 Mkii with the VSL. Would I be able to create Orchestral work with VSL in logic and the bring it across to protools le for editing and mixing?

[tattie]

Jonnyblue -

YES - a big yes.

For many years I 'recorded/sequenced' in Logic and then Mastered in Pro-Tools.

However these days I tend to do everything in Logic Platinum - Logic and the 3rd party tools available for it are sonically a match for all but the very high-end TDM plugs and in most cases far far cheaper.

The main reason for this is the power in the computer itself - the days of DSP farms is probably numbered - the sheer cost and faf factor of setting up DSP/TDM is not worth the marginal increase in control, performance and sonic clarity.

A Highend PC/MAC with a good control surface with tonnes of SCSI/Firewire drives and an excellent set of Bi Amped Monitors is all that is needed. If you are working to film then simply add the appropriate card and additional displays.

Whilst I think going down the Logic path to gain access to VSL is probably the best option for you, you should check out other Audio/Sequencer packages.

Logic is not everyones cup of tea -- Cubase SX/MOtU DP for the Mac are also great tools. I would recommend you try them all out - at the end of the day you might spend hours in front of whatever you choose and it has to be right for you.

tattie