Hello Tim,

I couldn't download your file (it's a link to the lycos site)

You could email a mp3 attachement to

office@vsl.co.at

and I link the file to our webserver.


best wishes
Herb

Thanks Herb, its on its way.

BTW, I don't have GIGA studio so this is a HALion import of the GIGA VSL. So for those other HALion users toying with buying VSL - do so, its fantastic - well after the 4 hours of importing anyway!!! [[;)]]

(Note - there's an alternative link in my first post which should work correctly)

Sorry, but this is the kind of demo that would bring the sales of VSL to a crawl.
It is so quantized that I don't see the need to buy VSL for that use.

Please do listen to the demos posted on this site for an exemple of realistic, inspired work.

Not trying to get you down but truth has to be told in order for us to better ourselves... [*-)]

Patrick

Thanks for the (slightly harsh [:O]ops: ) feedback. As I said I am new to composing in general any tips on how not to use a quantised approach for composing, especially if you are trying to work from a written score would be welcome.

I would be interested in understanding how people using Sibelius or Finale with VSL make it sound "unquantised".

Btw, are you the patrick who did the Trilogy demos for Spectrasonics. If so, they sound fairly quantised too - if not let me know where/how I'm going wrong.

TIA

Tim

To overcome the quantize problem in working with a notation programm is a problem. At Frankfurt two programmers showed me a software solution, which supports a musically quantizing.

"Musicraft" by Gershon Silbert and Avner Dorman.
Sorry I don't find the webpage url at the moment.

It was amazing how well this software worked.
It worked with simple Finale scores routed through the Musicraft software.

You can work there with fixed templates, selecting different music styles with full access for all parameters.

I don't know if there exists a first release now (it was announced for 2003). If it is available, I strongly can recommend it, for all who are working with scoring programms, and do not perform there tracks on the keyboard.

On the other hand, best way to avoid quantized tracks is to practice piano playing.
I'm a very bad piano player, and quantized a lot in the passed. Now I try to spend one hour a day for piano practizing, it really helps a lot to improve your composing progress working with a sequenzer.

However a short hint for your arrangement, Tim.

At the beginning I think you used the loudest velocity of the violin staccati.
I would suggest to use the second layer, I think it would work better for that line, and I would try to alternate with "0'3s" violin short samples.
The alternation between second dynamic layer of the staccati and the loudest 0'3s work quite well.

best wishes
Herb

Herb,

Thanks. I think i found the site you mention although there doesn't appear to be a product available just yet.

For everyone else interested the site is below:

http://www.musicraft-ltd.com">http://www.musicraft-ltd.com

BTW if anyone else can give me some tips please do so - I can take it [*-)]

piano playing (or another controller) in real time, and slow down the tempo of the track while you record. It can help you if you're not a good player.

Learning some sort of "input" controller (wind/midi guitar/keyboard..etc) will help out a ton.

Right now its just too difficult to get the most out of VSL with simple notation apps alone.

You could manually (or software wise) rondomaize the note on times bya few midi ticks, but its still not very "human"

Thanks. The odd thing is I'm not a bad piano player (Grade 4) and I can sit down and play at a "real" piano quite easily.

I find though that trying to play out seperate parts one at a time really hard and everything sounds messy afterwards - hence I over quantise.

In terms of getting going how do people do it. Do you play to a click track? Put down a groove (but in orchestral/classical there probably isn't going to be one)? Do you start with some basic chord progression and then add melody lines?

- as you can see I really am new and keen to learn, so all the help from you guys in the forum much appreciated.

BTW are there any good books that would help me instead of having to pester you guys.

Since you can play piano, try charting out the song and then playing the song "free" on the piano with either a piano sample, or full string sample of something, get most of the basics.....chords, some leading tones etc..

Then go back and play the orchestral stuff over it.

Remember that you wont be able to go back and make "easy" edits with this route unless your sequencer has a "find tempo" feature...and thats not guaranteed to work right.

Alot of people will play with a click, but when things need to be free, they'll stop playback and play free. Or you can draw in a basic tempo curve then play back to a click.

Timkiel,

sorry if my comments sounded a little tough. I am not trying to hurt anyone. I only believe in positive criticism.

Yes, I did write some demos for Trilogy. I did use quantize mostly for the progressive rock demo. The jazz demo doesn't have much quantize on it.
Some styles can use more quantizing than others. In some rock, funk, african, latin songs, quantizing moderatly doesn't hurt.

In my performing carrer I have played with amazing drummers (Paco Seri to name one) that would naturally play for hours "on the beat" (not before or after). When you look at a recorded wave file of a performance of this type of musician, you'd be amazed at how each note played is right on the computer 16th and 16th triplet subdivision (or 32,64...).

For orchestral music however, nothing sounds more fake than a very quantized arrangement. The tips that are mentionned above should help you take care of this problem and make the VSL shine the way it ought to be. [[;)]]