tuning issues

[Craig Sharmat]

While I really like VSL (no I wouldn't think of giving it back, even if I could) there are of course some problems as mentioned on other threads. I don't spend much time here so I don't know if this was posted. I find on the KB stacc and cello stacc tuning issues. The velocities seem to be in tune with themselves but when you cross velocities (say a louder and a softer one) they seem to be out. Also on some of the loop stuff on these insts, you can hear the retrigger.

BTW (from my earlier thread) hi Paul!

[herb]

We'll have a look at it.
It would be helpful to get infos, which are the most obvious samples.

But it could also be the following phenomenon:

There are minor pitch oscillations between the different players.
In one sample players 1,3,5 are playing a little sharper, on the next 1,2,6 for example. Both notes were tuned correctly but they seem to sound a little different in pitch.

That could be the reason, why they sound well tuned when you play in scales on one dynamic.

By the way, in the real world strong dynamic jumps played on the same key cause really large pitch jumps. The players have to correct the intonation.
That's most obvious with the lower string instruments, brass, also woodwinds and timpani!

best wishes
Herb

[Iwan Roth]

@herb said:

We'll have a look at it.
It would be helpful to get infos, which are the most obvious samples.

But it could also be the following phenomenon:

There are minor pitch oscillations between the different players.
In one sample players 1,3,5 are playing a little sharper, on the next 1,2,6 for example. Both notes were tuned correctly but they seem to sound a little different in pitch.
best wishes
Herb

Personally I do appreciate this small intonation variations! Perfect intonation in sampled music productions is a major responsable for the machine effect. Also the variations in real life are totally out of control, since some instruments while getting louder are getting sharp and others getting sharp while getting softer. Despite the fact that the orchestral players are aware of this, and do try to compensate, there is always a tolerance of about 10 to 20% of a semitone. If this tolerance is missing it will not sound real!

Iwan

[NG1]

Yes, I agree with Iwan on this issue as well. Slightly "out" tuning helps obscure the sound of equal temperment - and equal temperment sounds uncharacteristic in an orchestral situation. I think that's part of what makes the legato instruments sound so good: the slight amount of time it takes for the tuning of a new note to "settle" makes the instruments sound more real and have less of an organ quality. With older sample libraries you could especially hear the combined result of equal temperment tuning (especially in denser orchestrations) and the effect always sounded, in a way, more like a pipe organ than an orchestra.

I still think that the equal temperment issue is an obstacle for all sample libraries, including VSL to a lesser degree. I'm trying to collect my thoughts and maybe post some ideas as to how this might be overcome intelligently.