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  3. Looped stuff redux

  • Looped stuff redux

    G
    G
    Hi,

    I know that his has been addressed before but this is my note to Herb & or the developers.

    After a day of playing with VSL I really do like it a lot and thank you for all of the hard work that went into it.Your obsession with detail is evident.

    But in my line of work (TV and film ..probably like most of the guys here) I really do NEED at least some version of looped strings and longer Legato performance Inst.(and sooner rather than later)

    If one were just recreating "classical" music this would work great, but as you know film/tv music is far more elongated.

    I would "give" a little in terms of expression for the ability to easily sustain a note to it's intended length. I am not suggesting that you abandon your original vision--just offer an option so that one can choose.

    If this were just a minor inconvenience then I wouldn't mention it but for me (at least) it is a real problem. Since I am new to this library maybe I have overlooked some workaround that has been provided and if so I apologize for being premature.

    Again, great work and I look forward to the future

    Thanks
    Greg Edmonson
  • K
    K
    a great trick for the sustain ensembles is to kick on the sustain pedal and retrigger the note, thus creating a longer sustain.

    Works well for the legatos looping these will great a very syclical tone, but theres some work going on taking look at options for looping.
  • M
    M
    This issue is also one of the top priority on my mind towards VSL. I am very anxious to know how I'll be able to workaround the legato stuff with such short notes.

    I would like to know what is the official position of VSL on the subject of short legato notes. I fully understand why it was done like this, and this is ok with me. But there needs to be a workaround! I just want to know if VSL has thought of some tricks we could use. Or is VSL waiting for Giga 3.0, hoping that there would be more dimensions available, allowing crossfade layers or something like that?

    Thanks for clearing that matter!
    Martin
  • H
    H
    Other people have already mentioned some solutions. I just can describe my personal workflow. As creator and responsible for the whole library design you can see it as "Official position":

    I simply use two different miditracks. First playing the line with the legato instrument. I don't care if a note is ringing out during my performance and simply continue playing. Afterwards I copy the long notes on the second track and shorten the length of the notes in the legato track to get the right transition.
    If necessary I use the modwheel for attack control on the long note miditrack.

    Its not a realtime solution, so you can't use if for live performances (here you have to use the sustainpedal solution), but if you have the right workflow it only needs some seconds.

    The advantages are, that you can use different kind of long notes on your second track: normal sustains, dynamic samples, dynamic crossfade sustains, and so on.

    Personally I need this work around not very often, because I try to programm as realistic as possible. Stringplayers make bowchanges and brass payer have to breath. In most cases it's only one transition between two notes. (If you need a longer endnote in phrase).

    OK, we have a virtual orchestra, why not programming endless adagio legato lines?
    Therefore Martin is right (I also mentioned it some weeks ago):
    our approach is to make the performance tools flexibler, creating an all in one solution. First we need more dimensions (I'm sure we'll get them). So we can implement more playing styles in one performance instrument.
    For examples more dynamic layers and different starting notes.

    Finally we are searching for an engine, which has no "sample count" limitations.
    Than we can create "all in one" instruments and you can perform in realtime using all variations we offer.

    best wishes
    Herb
  • I
    I
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    Personally I need this work around not very often, because I try to programm as realistic as possible. Stringplayers make bowchanges and brass payer have to breath. In most cases it's only one transition between two notes. (If you need a longer endnote in phrase).



    I never did take any position about this looping stuff, because obviously everybody wants loops and I do not need it. So I thought I better keep keep quiet.... But what Herb is writing is absolutely the truth and I want to add something: loops are, even when well made, always heard. Also if you study scores you will see notes, which are far longer as a bow stroke can play and the players use exactly the technique Herb does describe. Which is strange is that everybody wants loops for strings and nobody wishes loops on woodwinds because this are the only instruments which actually can sustain notes nearly for ever, using a technique called "circular breathing".

    Iwan Roth
    http://www.iwanroth-sax.com
  • G
    G
    Hi Guys

    When we talk about strings loops--it IS realism that we are after.

    Trust me, you could write endless tied whole notes for an LA orchestra and they would not stop and start re-bowing as a group. The concertmaster would guide them if necessary.The effect would be a continous smooth tone.

    When you do this with samples and the whole string patch stops and then restarts (As a group), it creates a bump that would never happen on a real date.

    Love em or hate em---sometimes you need long high strings or long low strings. You just don't want them to quit playing until you are ready to change--Usually mandated by the picture.

    I understand not wanting to create unnaturally long tones--But, for instance, if you have looped horns--then when you play them as a section they will all cut off together-as REAL horns would do.

    I could be very wrong about this but I think that most users who are using this for work (i.e. with a hard deadline) are looking for stuff that can be used in a grab and go manner.

    Please don't construe this as a negative - I just wanted to make that case that (for me, at least) realism is being able to accomplish the above (quickly)!!

    Thanks and I am having a great time with this library

    Greg
  • M
    M
    last edited
    last edited

    @herb said:

    I simply use two different miditracks. First playing the line with the legato instrument. I don't care if a note is ringing out during my performance and simply continue playing. Afterwards I copy the long notes on the second track and shorten the length of the notes in the legato track to get the right transition.
    If necessary I use the modwheel for attack control on the long note miditrack.


    Thanks Herb!

    I look forward to try that. I just made my order.

    Martin
  • M
    M
    Greg,

    I agree with your comments and observations. Herb, we all appreciate the tremendous work you are doing, but there are clearly some real-world needs that aren't addressed at present.

    Somehow, VSL has to find a middle path between what they originally planned and what paid users are asking for.

    Regards - Colin