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  • Musician's attitudes

    I was wondering if Herb and the other composers on this site had any thoughts about this topic that has bugged me many times ---

    I've been an orchestral player, and noticed that music is almost always considered from the performer's rather than composer's standpoint, and this applies very much to sampling. In other words, a lot of classical musicians disapprove of it because it "puts them out of work" or is "artificial." But first of all, with the naturalness of something like the VSL, the latter is no longer so true. And if you look at it from the composer's standpoint, it is the best thing that has happened in a long time. It truly allows one person to command many sounds. After all that has been a desire throughout all the history of music. Obviously it was the original impetus for the development of the pipe organ, or centuries later, the analog synthesizer.

    But my point is, besides the fact that composers' perspectives are usually ignored, performers don't seem to realize they are getting new opportunities with sampling in doing the recordings first of all, and secondly being able to do solo/soli work in conjunction with sampled sound, etc. (Not to mention the possibilty of playing samples themselves.)

    I'm also wondering what the classical musicians who did these samples think of it. They are obviously some of the best performers. Is it just a gig to them? Do they shake their heads in dismay after leaving a recording session, or are they excited about it? Did some of them want copies of the library?

    I suppose the way I am looking at it now is that I am actually doing a recording of a real orchestra playing music, but instead of it being a live one done all at once (for better or for worse) it is ONE NOTE (OR ARTICULATION) AT A TIME. And this allows far greater control as a composer/conductor than one would have even with a relatively good live orchestra. The composition process is still the same, sketching musical ideas, writing an orchestration on paper, but then two new phases come in - the performance of the basic notes on keyboard and a third with the adjustment of MIDI parameters which are almost uncannily like a conductor making adjustments to balance or tempo. Essentially, the composing, performing and conducting jobs all become possible for one person to do.

    I spent two years doing a recording of one symphony (in an admittedly very difficult way, without enough equipment), and sometimes I've thought perhaps I shouldn't even be working with the technology, and instead concentrating on just musical ideas. But that is utterly impossible because if there's a sampler in the room I can't keep my hands off it!

  • I can tell you that I've been trying to get a friend of mine who was a professional trumpet player to play for me so I can sample him for my personal collection, and he was very reluctant until I told him I wouldn't sell it to other people. In general he dislikes this field.

    It's just like anything else though. Painters probably hated photographs at first. Animators hated 3D rendering at first. This is just another step. Just as photos never replaced paintings and 3D renderings will never replace animation, sampling will never replace good orchestras. It's just a new medium and will find its niche eventually.

  • Thanks, William, for this very important thread.

    I'm sure that you will receive many replies, hopefully from Herb too, but I think I'm entitled to say that most of our instrumentalists consider our recording-sessions as a chance to refine their playing beyond any imagination. If you take in account that all of them work for several _months_, you may get the picture. Actually, our sessions start when ordinary sampling-sessions are already over.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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    @Another User said:

    3D renderings will never replace animation


    but 3D IS animation!

    sorry for going OT there but I work at this...I couldnĀ“t leave it pass [[;)]] Besides, the point is clear and true.

  • 3D Animation won't replace cell-animation, which is what I meant.

  • Our musicians don't have any problems working for us. The main point is that none of them makes a living of studio jobs. And everybody knows that a samplelibrary does not compete with live concerts.

    In the beginning I had intensive discussions with them about the ethic aspects of our project, and most of them shared my opinion: our library will be a strong competitor for studio orientated orchestral work, maybe there will be less jobs in the future. On the other hand our musicians would be very happy if more high quality compositions were done for concerts. Most of them have mixed feelings when they have to play first night premiers of new compositions. Sometimes composers have few ideas how to write for several instruments.
    No joke, our musicians are hoping that in the near future more and better pieces will find their way into concert halls and opera houses.

    That issue is very important for us, and we will make our contribution to educational aspects. We have also plans to initiate a composing competition in the near future.

    Maybe the Vienna Symphonic Library will help some talented composers to make their breakthrough. That would be wonderful.

    Best wishes
    Herb

  • errr....now that you mention a contest...what about a contest using the demo cube and being VSL the prize? [I]

    you understand...those of us lower on budget have to try too [:D]

    just an idea....

  • I have worked on many soundtracks with both live and sampled orchestras and in my experience one will feed the other. Having a great library at you disposal really helps the composer, and the client gets a really good idea of what an orchestra would sound like. It will often help the client find the extra budget to record the final masters with a live orchestra. Being a trombonist and percussionst, I don't think that any library will ever replace the live orchestra, but this is a great tool for composers and everyone should embrace it.

    RJ

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    @Another User said:

    performers don't seem to realize they are getting new opportunities with sampling in doing the recordings first of all


    I'm glad there are players out there willing to do it, and I hope they're generously compensated. In fact, I hope they get some sort of residual based on how successful the library is.

    I've never put together a sampling library, but from accounts I've read of other libraries being put together, I think it's safe to say that it has to be some of the most tedious, musically unrewarding work these musicians will do in their professional lives. I'm sure there are some to take well to it, but I imagine that keeping morale up at these sessions is a primary task.

    In fact, on the most recent Roland library, isn't there a sound effect of the string players gleefully ripping up the music?

    Lee Blaske