Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Panning suggestions

    Hi,

    Do there come panning suggestions with the package?
    Maybe it's a usefull idea to be able to share panning setups that realy work or create nice effects.

    Regards,
    Geert.

    I just bought the complete package, and can't sleep till it's in the studio [[;)]]

  • I think this topic is exactly what _this_ forum is meant to be open for - so feel welcome to discuss it to your heart's content!

    BTW - counting sheep might help ;-]

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • The best way to do the panning is inside GigaStudio in DSP Station. You can set the panning in DSP as a normal orchestral setup, or, you can look at some different setups using Norman Del Mar's Anatomy of the Orchestra. In this book, he presents alternative seating arrangements. Most notable for the strings is the Tchaikovsky setup, which for sampled strings can offer a more balanced sound, especially with independent 2nd Violin Parts or Unison parts.

  • Thanks ! i'm going to order the book right away...

    It's a shame that Gigastudio uses very detailed information concerning which harddisk, folder etc. in it's performance files, because else it was possible to exchange complete orchestra templates (including panning [:)]

    So if someone knows a way to make a GigastudioPerformance file HD and folder independant. We could create a very usefull template archieve. And you are be able to send a performance + midi file to someone, who can listen to almost the exact reproduction of the send composition. Zipped it would be 20 times less data compared to mp3.

    Correct me if i'm wrong here [:)]

    Geert.

    p.s. (off topic) does anybody know what the average shipping time is? (netherlands)

  • The MIDI file would depend on the sequencer, but this is a great idea. Maybe the way around the GigaStudio hard drive issue is to create a series of wordpad templates that can be save as an .rtf file. This way it can be used on the Mac, too.

    Another obstacle is the audio card setup since everyone has a different rig.

    Let's play with this idea.

    PA

  • I've opened the .gsp file with notepad and the data concerning the drive/folder is readable and editable, but with lots of loaded samples it's hell of a job to change it manually. And i'm not sure it even works.

    Anybody got any experience on this ?

    Geert.

  • Yes it can be done - but not in Notepad! Notepad will save in TXT formats only, and thus your performance file will be unreadable. Once I had run into a problem where I had to get back to an old performance, but my setup had changed completely. I found a very basic hex-editor, and replaced F:\ with D:\ for some patches etc and it worked. I couldnt change the directory names though, since the file had to be the exact same length after I had altered it.

    I don't know the logic, but SOMETIMES GigaStudio can still find your files even if you move them to other drive letters, as long as the directory names are the same. It didn't work in my case though for all my libaries, so I had to resort to this solution.

  • My apologies. When I said notepad, I meant to write it down like an instruction set so that we could manually set up our giga systems.

    PA

  • dietz mon cher
    remember me? I hope you are fine. And hello to the others here. Concerning panning: Do you do anything different from narrowing the stereo image of a sound for putting it left or right? I mean tools that act like waves S1.

    best

    Ulrich

  • Uli! How could I forget that crazy mixing session in Munich 8-] ... Nice to see you here!

    Concerning your question: No, I do just that - I take the S1, narrow the stereo-image to an amount I like, and pan the whole signal to a position I (or a producer) think that fits the task.

    In many Digital Audio Workstations with true stereo-auxiliaries this has the benefit that you signal is panned _before_ the AUX-send, which means that you don't have to take extra care for proper panning in this respect.

    All the best, and I really hope you show up here from time to time.


    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    PS: "wegen .... Essen ?!?" [insider joke mode OFF]

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • so you do use the s1? why don't you just put the left and right channel of the stereo source where you want them? Or is that what you do in s1 after all? (I mean the s1 could do things like panning in-phase contents separately in the stereo image and such, but I didn't feel that makes much sense with the vsl, do you?)

    best

    uli

  • Hello Uli,

    of course you don't _need_ the S1 - it just makes things so much easier: no matter in what direction you pan the signal, the stereo-width always stays the same.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • I was just tinkering with the Waves S1 SI and created some presets according to standard orchestral seating. I will post a link to a piece when i am done, though it won't be using VSL since I don't have it. Well I do have the demo disc atleast...lol.

    EDIT: Dietz you can change the width and the distance.

  • with S1 you cant change the distance, you can change the spread of the signal, (or rather "shape" it), but you cannot fake distance, its only volume/power.

  • Another way to consider mixing that I like to use.

    This of course assumes that you might want to put all your stuff in individual hard disk tracks and mix them in a hard disk environment like nuendo or your sequencer or whatever.
    What I like to do is just set everything to the center and add a little bit of temporary reverb to compose. I send each section to its own pair in the GigaStudio DSP station. (each instrument\section to its own pair, ensemble and solo. That way I can have the same instruments together and mix them together. My own philosophy anyway)
    So, everything is going dry to its own various pairs of channels in various DSP station pairs, accross several computers. (as many as you can get to compose in real time)

    When a song is done, I can then record each stem to its own pair of audio tracks. You can capture to wave or digitally record them or even an analog recording if needed.

    When I'm done, I have for example, one pair of of hard disk tracks for solo & ensemble trumpets, one for solo & ensemble horns, one for each section of the strings-solo & ensemble and so on. This includes all articulations of those instruments, so for violins, that would include all the sustain, legato, staccato,repetition, anything from any other violin library, all going to the same channels. As I compose, I make sure their relative levels are taken care of with MIDI volume or expression. So, while composing, you can do some basic level adjustments and they will be hardwired into your sequencer tracks and convienient to access real quick. Your not worrying about any reverb or pan settings so you can keep the composing flow going.

    It comes out to
    5 pairs of tracks for strings
    4-5 pairs for brass
    4-5 pairs for winds
    2 or 3 or so for percussion.
    In the end I have less than 40 tracks (20 stereo pairs) to work with.

    They are all panned dead center at this point. Then I can mix them real simply without having to go crazing from sampler screen to sampler screen and tweak that way.

    Giga Studio does give you much of what you need to do the mixing and it is there if you don't have the other options but it is not the easiest way to mix.

    My templates are the GSP performances for the Giga machines and a sequencing template that pans everything to the center. It works just fine for composing and you can have a MIDI template do some panning for you in your sequencer if you need to hear the instruments placed in the right place.

    This is becoming less relevant with the current libraries like VSL an QLSO that are all done in a single environment but it still works and is much simpler than when I had to match several various libraries with various panning settings. With this method, my MIDI templates could make sure that everything is panned dead center. That way, I only had to do mixing at the hard disk stage with 15 or 20 pairs of channels to mix. Its really cool.

    At that point you can then apply whatever eq or reverb or impulse technology you wish and pan them.

    If you have a big enough mixer and multi outs for all your systems of course you can do this all live.

    The disadvantage is that you have to make sure you have a good level mix of your individual articulations of course or you will have to remix a stem or two. Keep in mind though, that is all level adjustments that are being made in MIDI. You can get a good level mix before you capture these stems pretty well.

    Something to think about anyway.

    Dave

  • Wow taking a little longer to just use S1 compared to cakewalk's panning is well worth it. Also I did what david said above (this is before he posted though) and I maxed the volume of each instrument (0db no clipping). Then I loaded em all into CW 9 and adjusted the volume a little to make it sit better and mixed it down to a single stereo wav. Finally I opened it in SF 5 and added an acoustic mirror to it and now it is done. Though one question, how would I set up GS to record when I press play in cakewalk 9? I have tried several times but it never works. So I have had to press record in GS, hit play in CW and then edit out the time difference in SF, it is very tedious and is getting annoying. Please someone help [:'(]

  • Good point Adam. For years Cakewalk has not had the ability to send the appropriate MIDI clock that will start the GigaStudio capture. It sends some sort of basic MIDI clock but not the kind that Giga responds too. I don't know if they have put that into their latest stuff. The other sequencers work fine. I would assume that the NemeSys programmers may work on this a bit. A big request has been for multi track capturing in Giga. For now, it might help to create 4 metronome clicks at the begining (and end if you like) of your sequences using some percussive GigaStudio samples and capture them. Then you have some slates to help synch them up.
    You added another good point in that you want your stems to be pretty strong and use as many of those bits as you can. You can then turn them down when you mix.
    Take care
    Dave

  • Thanks for the tip Dave that should work. Yeah I don't really see how much programming it would require for them to make a midi clock that works with GS, maybe it could be a free download for CW users?

  • last edited
    last edited

    @David Govett said:

    Another way to consider mixing that I like to use.

    ....

    Something to think about anyway.

    Dave


    Very nice summary Dave, exactly the same approach as my new setup. I return the Adats from my Giga PCs into Logic 5.5, where I can easily apply S1, RVerb, some EQ on the audio input signals, so I can do some initial "better than Midi-" panning here, while I work in the Midi Dept.

    Not yet having VSL, I have made this setup up especially for handling and merging dry & wet libraries, like Dan's solo brass vs SAM's horns. You can first route the dry instruments through for instance CakeWalk's SoundStage or Waves RVerb with Early Reflections only, to make the dry & wet sounds similar. You can easily run a number of S1's and/or SoundStage instances within the input mixer.

    Regards,

    Peter

    PS: I hope that non-VSL posts are not a problem when they address the general sequencing/recording processes that can also apply to using VSL... [:)]

  • You're welcome Peter.