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  • Horn Triple

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    In the VSL SE Standard Edition, the only options we have for horns is the horn triple and the horn ensemble - a4. I want a solo horn, so I would like to know if the horn triple is three horns, or one. I can't quite tell by listening to it. Thank you.

    Colin Thomson
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    The triple horn is one horn. The triple refers to having three separate ranks of valve slides, one each for the F-basso, Bb and f-alto horns. Kinda like three horns in one. A big modern beasty favoured by young stallions.

    Denis Brain would have raised an eyebrow and probably have used it to plumb his house.
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    Ok. That's what I thought it might be. Thanks.

    Colin Thomson
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    A couple summers ago, VSL let us download some free triple horn sounds. That's all I've heard of it, but I preferred it to the original solo horn. As a later product, the triple horn also benefited from VSL's improved facility with sampling.
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    @ColinThomson said:

    In the VSL SE Standard Edition, the only options we have for horns is the horn triple and the horn ensemble - a4. I want a solo horn, so I would like to know if the horn triple is three horns, or one. I can't quite tell by listening to it. Thank you.
    Colin Thomson

    Hi Colin
    Yes, the Triple Horn is one. I'm not a Horn specialist. As far as I know the Horn in general has the problem that it plays only in one key in a proper way (natural tones? I don't know the real English expression). Therefore we have Horns in F, in Bb and in Eb (Waldhorn). A modern Horn has two Horns integrated: one in Bb and one in F. The horn player has a switch-valve (F-Bb) beside the common valves.
    The triple Horn has "got one more horn". The third is "high F". Unfortunately I don't know exactly what it means.
    I will search now the internet for that matter...

    That's the Triple Horn sound of VSL (two voices):
    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL/BK_Triple_Horn.mp3

    All the best
    Beat Kaufmann
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
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    I see. I actually just a little bit ago read about the triple horn in my orchestration book, but didn't realize that that was what VSL was referring to. Thanks for clearing things up.

    Colin Thomson
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    @Another User said:


    The triple Horn has "got one more horn". The third is "high F". Unfortunately I don't know exactly what it means.


    The "high F" horn is pitched (harmonic series) one octave higher than the standard "low" F horn.

    The reason for the additional horn is a further extension of the concept of a double horn, introduced about 100 years ago. The Bb horn moves the core of the playing range up a 4th from the 'original' F horn. The triple adds another range of facility up a 4th or 5th, and is gradually becoming the standard multi-purpose horn for everyday work.

    BTW, not all triple horns are F-alto on the top. I play an Englebert Schmid triple with F, Bb, and Eb-alto.

    Steven
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    Dear Colin,

    I'm curious what orchestration book you're referring to, and if you'd recommend it. Since my VSL is finally up and running, I'm interested in books on orchestration and theory. Also intstructional CD's. I do a lot of driving with plenty of time to listen.
    Thanks! Good luck with the triplehorn. Tom
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    @sgentry said:

    BTW, not all triple horns are F-alto on the top. I play an Englebert Schmid triple with F, Bb, and Eb-alto.

    Steven


    Steve you seem to know a thing or two about horns. What instrument did Hindemith intend with his sonata for alto horn in Eb. Was it the upright Eb horn (Saxhorn) used in british brass bands or a french horn pitched in Eb?
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    @Tom23 said:

    I'm curious what orchestration book you're referring to, and if you'd recommend it.


    I'm not Colin, but a very good one I just finished is Forsythe's book, published by Dover. It's 100 years old and has some amusing anachronisms, but it's a complete guide to the orchestra. It includes a lot of ancient instruments as well, in case you need to write for serpent or viol. If anything, it has too much information. I'll need to read it at least two more times.

    Peter Alexander's Orchestration Vol 1 is also very good. It's based on Rimsky-Korsakov's Principals of Orchestration but adds a lot of info and examples.

    http://www.truespec.com/professional-orchestration-volume-ultimate-learning-package-p-596.html
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    @sgentry said:

    BTW, not all triple horns are F-alto on the top. I play an Englebert Schmid triple with F, Bb, and Eb-alto.

    Steven


    Steve you seem to know a thing or two about horns. What instrument did Hindemith intend with his sonata for alto horn in Eb. Was it the upright Eb horn (Saxhorn) used in british brass bands or a french horn pitched in Eb?

    Dave, I know this sonata is performed by horn players and trombone players today, but I believe it was written for that upright Eb horn. Isn't it also called the Eb tenor horn sometimes? [We don't have much in the way of British bands out here in Los Angeles.]

    Also, as you probably know, Hindemith wrote another sonata for the 'real' [[;)]] horn so I think he had something else in mind for the alto horn sonata.

    Have you played the alto horn sonata? It's fairly nimble isn't it?

    Steven
  • Beat KaufmannB
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    @Another User said:


    The triple Horn has "got one more horn". The third is "high F". Unfortunately I don't know exactly what it means.


    The "high F" horn is pitched (harmonic series) one octave higher than the standard "low" F horn.

    The reason for the additional horn is a further extension of the concept of a double horn, introduced about 100 years ago. The Bb horn moves the core of the playing range up a 4th from the 'original' F horn. The triple adds another range of facility up a 4th or 5th, and is gradually becoming the standard multi-purpose horn for everyday work.

    BTW, not all triple horns are F-alto on the top. I play an Englebert Schmid triple with F, Bb, and Eb-alto.

    Steven
    Thanks for clearing up this matter [:D]

    Beat
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
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    Tom, the orchestration book I was referring to is called 'The Study Of Orchestration" by Samuel Adler. I would certainly recommend it. Here is a link for amazon:

    The book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-Third-Samuel-Adler/dp/039397572X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-9723480-2484619?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185418731&sr=1-1

    The accompanying CDs (would HIGHLY recommend them too. They add a TON)

    http://www.amazon.com/Study-Orchestration-3rd-Samuel-Adler/dp/0393102831/ref=ed_oe_a/103-9723480-2484619?ie=UTF8&qid=1185418731&sr=1-1


    I know it gets a little pricey, but it was worth it for me. But here is a great option that I didn't find until after I got the book and cds:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=77

    That is free, and there is plenty of info to work off of for a while. Have fun. [:D]
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    @sgentry said:

    ...Dave, I know this sonata is performed by horn players and trombone players today, but I believe it was written for that upright Eb horn. Isn't it also called the Eb tenor horn sometimes? [We don't have much in the way of British bands out here in Los Angeles.]

    Also, as you probably know, Hindemith wrote another sonata for the 'real' [[;)]] horn so I think he had something else in mind for the alto horn sonata.

    Have you played the alto horn sonata? It's fairly nimble isn't it?

    Steven


    That's interesting, I wonder how Hindemith was exposed to the Eb tenor Horn (Saxhorn). I would love to hear it played by a tenor horn but it seems brass band tenor hornist's (?) are happier to play endless arrangements of fluffy pop ballads.

    I've played the tuba sonata which I adore. In fact I like all Hindemith's brass sonatas (and indeed Hindemith's music generally). he wrote very well for brass and I like that the sonatas are virtuoso duets rather than plinkety plonk piano accompaniments.
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    Colin and Synthetic,

    Thanks for the tips on the orchestration books. I'm off on the road again, will take a better look when I get back. The CD package looks especially interesting.

    Maybe this is the wrong thread to bring this up, but anyone out there ever have problems with stuck notes in MIDI? I have a VI violin track that started playing a previous note along with the next one, making a real hodgepodge of my piece. Now the epic horn track has started doing the same thing. Even when I stop playback, the note keeps sounding.

    Anyone else experience this problem? I use Logic and a MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo.

    Thanks again for the orchestration book info. Much appreciated! Tom