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  4. Many VSL instances needed plus reverb: PC won't cope.

  • Many VSL instances needed plus reverb: PC won't cope.

    V
    V
    Hi,

    I'm new to VSL and I wanted to check with the more experienced people here, if I'm doing things right:

    I bought VSL SE. Installed it on a fresh Windows XP SP2 partition that only contains two other pieces of software: Cubase SX and Altiverb. I couldn't get it cleaner than this! The PC has a 3 GZ P4 Processor and 2GB internal memory. Audio card/equipment is an RME Fireface 800.

    I want to be able to create symphonic pieces using Cubase and VSL SE. As has been explained elsewhere in this forum, you need to create a new VSL instance for every instrument or group of instruments, or to describe it more accurately: you need a new instance of VSL the moment you want to have more instruments play at the same time than your current number of VSL instances (Right?) This means about 13 VSL instances on my first, simple test piece.

    If you want to do things right, you need to place your instruments on the right spot of the stage in Altiverb (right?). So that means that ideally, you would want an Altiverb instance for every VSL instance (right?)

    Well, I can't. As soon as I open more than two Altiverb instances, my processor usage goes skyhigh. So, for now I only use one instance of Altiverb and use it as a master effect for all tracks.

    But even then, I noticed that I'm reaching the limits of my PC. If I let too many instruments play simultaniously I get so many clicks, it sounds like a machine gun.

    What I'm thinking of doing now is use a light weight, simple reverb during composing and when the piece is finished, export all audio tracks seperately and then render the Altiverb into all tracks, one by one, with the right stage position. This way, my PC doesn't have to do too much calculating at once.

    But is this behaviour normal? Is there something wrong with my system? Should it be possible to do what I want? Or is this to be expected and should I go about it differently?

    Or should I concentrate on dividing the load onto two PC's, and if so, how would you go about this?

    Any help would be appriciated.

    Vincent
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    vincent, i'm not really surprised to hear cubase + 13 VI + 2 altiverb are stressing your CPU (btw: do you have hyperthreading enabled? if yes, it might be worth a try to see if your machine performs better without).
    the newer core 2 duo's have 2 real cores and a shorter processing pipeline and could handle such a load better.
    also to spread things across 2 PCs would of course help if you have this option.
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • C
    C
    Hi Vincent.

    >you need a new instance of VSL the moment you want to have more instruments play at the same time than your current number of VSL instances (Right?)

    Right, and as you've found, 13 instances plus a couple of reverbs puts pressure on your 2GB of RAM. I've found the same on my 2GB PC.

    My tip - run the VI's 'Learn' and 'Optimise' functions as soon as you've fixed a part; that will get rid of all the unused samples (VI patches use an enormous number) and free up a lot of RAM. It also makes sense to keep the reverb set-up simple till you've finished the arrangement.
  • H
    H
    last edited
    last edited

    @vtimmerm said:

    Hi,

    If you want to do things right, you need to place your instruments on the right spot of the stage in Altiverb (right?). So that means that ideally, you would want an Altiverb instance for every VSL instance (right?)

    Well, I can't. As soon as I open more than two Altiverb instances, my processor usage goes skyhigh. So, for now I only use one instance of Altiverb and use it as a master effect for all tracks.

    Vincent


    Hi there,

    I use 5 instances of reverb. 4 of them are for depth .. and one is an overall reverb. The idea being that you break up your instruments into 4 groups. Strings, Woods, Brass, and Percussion.

    So all those instruments only go to those groups .. then an overall reverb gives any extra needed reverb tail. For my info on that .. have a looksee at my Reverb Tech (Under VSL Tech) on my site.

    Also Beat Kaufmann has some great info on mixing on his site (Link also on my site .. or from one of Beats posts here in the forum.)
  • V
    V
    Thanks Hetoreyn for your info. I will certainly take a look at that.

    Conquer, what makes you say that memory is the problem here? You could be right of course, but I witness my processor usage go to 100% and usually, hearing clicks and pops is due to processor overload. But I will give it a try anyway. Thanks.

    I have an older P4 (1,5 Ghz) PC available and I might be able to get my hands on another. I think I'm going to check out FXTeleport to try and devide the load over three machines. I have been reading great things about it, and for me the big advantage is that there is no need for audio cards in the "helper PC's".

    I have an older Tascam US-122 lying about, but it doesn't have a digital audio output. I'm afraid that if I resort to audio routing using the US-122 that the quality of its analogue outputs would be bringing overal quality down, my main computer being attached to the great RME Fireface 800 and all.

    Anyway, I'll post my findings about FXTeleport later, in case someone is interested.

    Thanks all.
  • C
    C
    Hi Vincent.

    >what makes you say that memory is the problem here?

    It's only a guess (and I'm no technician!), but because you have a fast processor and Vienna Instruments patches tend to be RAM-hungry, I assumed that RAM usage was the more likely cause. Also, other users seem to think that 2 GB of RAM is insufficient for a full-blown VI system.
  • V
    V
    Right. Well that only makes the option to create a small PC farm seem even more attractive.

    By the way, I've read elsewhere that if asked, VSL is willing to split a VSL SE licence so you can run parts of the library on different PC's.

    Is this true? Anyone out there who has done it?

    Thanks
  • V
    V
    Im afraid Conquer is somewhat wrong here. Wink

    What you are experiencing is lack of CPU musclepower. 13 instances of VI on a meager 3Ghz P4 wont get you far when also running multiple AVs.

    But u need to check if u have turned of the tail rendering in AV on those instances that you put on each VI, as you only need the stage-positioning active. On the master output you have one AV instance with the tail rendering active and no stage-positioning active. The stage-positioning part of each AV uses very little CPU compared to the tail-rendering part.

    As for RAM, it's not your performance bottleneck here, but you do need more RAM to work effeciently when using so many instances.
  • C
    C
    >Im afraid Conquer is somewhat wrong here.

    No change there then. [:O]ops: But what type of PC would you consider to be adequate for Vincent's needs?
  • L
    L
    Which buffer-size are you using in your soundcard-settings ? Maybe it will get better, if you set it a little bit higher.