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  • Optimizing DP 5 for VI on Mac 8 core

    I have recently switched from a Rain audio pc and purchase a Mac 8-core Intel with 9 gigs of ram. I am using DP 5. I clearly do not have DP set up correctly because I am getting crazy drop outs and constant crashing when trying to run virtual instruments. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to optimize this machine that should be a complete power house for this type of thing? I am using a m-audio 410 interface which seems to need to be reset constantly for audio to work in DP. Any suggestions? This is frustrating as hell. Thanks.

    Andrew Foust

  • First - make sure you have the latest build of DP5. If you recently bought it off the shelf it sould be 5.01 which has issues with the later tiger builds.
    I haven't heard of any issues with DP on the octocore but 5.12 is probably a must.

    Second - M audio interfaces have been a nightmare for me. Utter total crap.
    M audio drivers are weak at best and really problematic for any other daws (than Pro Tools m powered). They are the worst I have ever run into.

    With the later DP revs and a good interface (rme/motu etc) your system will be incredible.

  • There have been some issues with M-Audio drivers-- Not everyone has had this trouble, but your experience sounds similar to mine and others.

    I'm running DP 5.11 with OS 10.4.8. There are reports on different forums of those using 10.4.9 with DP 5.11 and 5.12 citing some issues with crash on save or crash during editing, etc. Again, not everyone is experiencing this.

    Firewire busses are still an issue as well. Some users who have firewire interfaces as well as firewire hard drives on the same bus are experiencing sporadic dropouts, pops/clicks, etc. The solution is to have your sample data on one or more internal drives-- or to get a PCIe firewire card. Another option would be to get a PCIe eSATA card and to move your samples to eSATA drives, leaving the firewire bus completely open for an audio interface. The PCIe slots thankfully all use independent busses whereas the firewire ports still share a single 33Mhz bus.

    While the latest multi-core MacPros rarely seem to reach or sustain the limits of their CPU power, the same issues remain with 32-bit apps and the associated memory limits. Everything that gets done inside of any DAW is done *mostly* within 4GB or less.

    As for memory, there are some reports that confirm Apple's recommendation that better performance can be had on MacPros taking 16GB RAM if the RAM is installed in fours. One member here reported that having 4 x 2GB = 8GB proved to be better performance-wise than 4 x 2GB + 2 x 512, which is what I'd been using. I've only this morning removed the 2 x 512 and am waiting to see if there are noticeable improvements.

    Note: so far, I see no difference in performance using 1GB less RAM, but I've not 1) pushed my MacPro to its limits quite yet and 2) I've only been working with the lesser amount of RAM for a day.

    Whether or not this is an Apple issue or a MOTU issue or an M-Audio issue, there are a few things that might help:

    1. Disable all automated features such as Software Update, screensavers, and any utilities that use the system drive for anything at all on a schedule.

    2. 'iSightAudio.plugin' has been known in the past to interfere with audio issues. If you don't use iSight, delete this file from:

    Library> Audio> Plugins> HAL

    3. Disable Widgets. These usually are not a problem, but disabling them removes one more possibility of interference.

    4. As a test, disable the M-Audio interface and use Apple's Built-In Audio. If the problems go away, you know that the M-Audio driver (or even the box itself) is causing the problem.

    5. Check with M-Audio for updated drivers. One problem with M-Audio is that they are slow with getting drivers released and de-bugged. About this time last year I need a driver for one of their audio cards I was using temporarily while my interface was being replaced. At the time, they didn't even have any drivers for the card compatible with Tiger! They even suggested I wipe my hard drive clean and install Panther. (Grrrrrrrr.) Their point was not well taken.

    6. Check your buffer settings in DP. You made need to raise them for the sake of pre-loading enough samples at the risk of adding latency. I wish I could work @256 or lower on larger projects, but for now I'm stuck with 512 for most things and 1024 for the rest.

    7. Look in your DP5 PDF addendum for features called Work Quanta, Max Work Percent, and Prime Seconds (all part of Studio Settings).

    Work Quanta: This calculates the intervals DP does its number crunching. Raising the number can help divert CPU resources to real-time audio processing at the expense of some graphics functions-- like the smoothness of the wiper. This may not be as big of a concern on the MacPro 8-Core.

    Max Work Percent: This assigns the amount of CPU to DP for the purpose of pre-rendering audio for playback-- with a default of 80%. Raising the number can improve audio performance, but again some graphics processing may or may not be compromised.

    Prime Seconds: This determines how far in advance DP looks for and prepares playback data. This can introduce latency with playback controls, but it might take some trial and error to find the right setting that improves your performance.

    8. Disable things like convolution reverbs or other memory-hungry fx until later. If you prefer, you can put a single instance of a reverb on the master fader if you do not like to work with 'dry' samples. When you're ready to mix you can add as many of these fx as your system can handle and raise your buffers as high as they can go.

    9. Keep your disk permissions repaired and run a third-party disk utility from time to time, such as DiskWarrior.

    10. Shut down your computer and let it rest for a while if used longer than 10-12 hours. The RAM gets a lot hotter in the MacPro than it did in the G5's-- I've actually burned myself to the point of raising a blister. Keeping your computer as cool and as well ventilated as possible will help keep it running more smoothly.

  • JWL - that's an awesome post.

    Andrew - don't over look his isight removal tip.
    It's an oldie but apparantly still a good one.
    The isight driver used to cause all manner of weird issues.

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    @edhamilton said:

    JWL - that's an awesome post.

    Andrew - don't over look his isight removal tip.
    It's an oldie but apparantly still a good one.
    The isight driver used to cause all manner of weird issues.


    Hey Ed:

    I didn't even realize that you'd beaten me to the punch! It took a while to tap all those words in. [:D] Thanks for confirming the M-Audio issue-- (so, I'm not the only one?) and the iSight thingy. That one always puzzled me.

    There is another question that was never fully resolved about optimizing DP. It has to do with the plugins that register with each boot-up. Some were wondering if removing those plugs that aren't being used would help. I wasn't sure because the MAS plugins have such a low footprint. I've not checked Activity Monitor officially, but I suspect that memory isn't used until those items are actually instantiated like any other plugin, and even there it doesn't seem to tax the system very much to have a dozen or more Trim plugs running (critical to mixing VSL-VI).

    However, it makes me wonder that if we are in the world of VSL-VI whether or not it is necessary to even have the MAS virtual instruments on deck. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time I started up Polar, but I recall I only did it once back in DP 3.x years ago and only realized that Polar was still part of DP at all. I've left all the MAS plugins alone to date, though.

    It sort of goes back to the iSight issue-- even if iSight isn't being used, having it sit there has interfered with audio. So, the jury is still out on whether other dormant drivers could possibly intrude without being seen.

  • I haven't had recent iSight drivers cause any problems just by being present on my machine. And I connected and disconnected, saved, hot-swapped, shut down, started up, made part of an aggregate device with seven other devices at different times, swapped drivers...with the M-Audio ProFire Lightbridge and never once had a crash with it. (I just got through doing a mass review of several interfaces.)

    Besides, I wouldn't want to remove the iSight driver - we use it all the time when putting together our magazine, and it's just fantastic. Our art director lives 15 miles away from me, but when we're working it's like he's on the other side of my desk and v.v. [:)]

    But I didn't use the iSight while working with these interfaces, so I can't say that it wouldn't have caused problems. Also, I don't remember whether the PFL was one of the interfaces I tried with DP; probably not. But with Logic it's very solid.

  • OS X 10.4.9, 2x2.5 G5, 8GB RAM.

    I should add that i also have my back-up hard drives connected to the FW bus.

  • little alarm bells go off for me when I see "9" gigs of ram. How is this configured? The faster these machines get, the harder they push the ram. Timing issues get to be a big problem, and without 100% matching ram, you're tempting fate a little, IMO. Try it with only matching ram, just to see.

    J.

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    @Nick Batzdorf said:

    I haven't had recent iSight drivers cause any problems just by being present on my machine.


    Hey Nick:

    The iSight issue was probably more DP related, but if you are not using DP chances are this might not have been a problem-- especially if your DAW of choice is Logic where the OS, hardware, and DAW are all spawning from the same nest. The removal of the iSight plugin was a popular workaround for DP users in the past. With later versions of DP post 4.6x, this became less of a problem in general, but the symptoms that Andrew mentioned having were similar to those other DP users were having at one time-- which were solved by removing the iSight plugin.

    Some users who needed the iSight plugin would simply move it to a neutral folder temporarily.

    I don't seem to have the problem currently, but different machines have a way of behaving differently with the same software and drivers. (I really tried to be careful with my post to mention that not everyone experienced the same problems or had to resort to the same workarounds.)

    But for those who are having troubles, it may be worth taking a look at whatever may be at issue if for no other reason than to confirm that it is working normally and to eliminate it from the list of possible culprits.

  • One other thing for those users with MOTU interfaces:

    The PCIe and firewire audio drivers were updated with the past month or so. Version 1.1.2 for Intel Mac CPUs may help greatly.

    I recently started experiencing crashes and observed issues related to Core Audio Foundation, MOTU MAS Engine, etc., and other issues related to the audio engine as being the culprit. After a quick check, I found an older UB driver and updated it. So far, so good.