Thanks everyone!! [:D] I slaved and obsessed and bleed over this so I'm very happy that you have found some nice things to say about it. Very appreciated!

Rob-- All of my "tricks" can be seen in the midi file and VSL VI presets here:

http://www.vsl.co.at/admin/downloader.asp?file=/data/Sounds/MP3/VI_DEMOS/14_Appassionatas/JB_Fantasia.zip

I layered solo string with Appassionata for the main orchestra throughout. The solo strings are generally about 16 db's lower than the Appassionata. But for the expressive divisi passages I made the solo strings only about 9 db's lower than the Appassionata.

I used Chamber layered with solo strings for the second smaller and more distant orchestra. To simulate the con sordino sections of the second orchestra I used a low pass filter to cut the highs.

I used the Amsterdam Concertgebouw IR in Altiverb far cardioids. For the Appassionata Strings (and the layered solo) I actually used very little reverb-- about 18% wet. For the distant chamber strings I used closer to 70% (with layered solo strings at about 30%).

I also created many combination Appassionata patches to simulate stronger and pronounced bowing techniques. For example:

harsh+legato
staccato+dim 2 sec
stac+detache

If you want to know anything else just ask.

Alex-- thanks for commenting on the colors of the different sized ensembles. This is one of the many things I love about the piece-- the intimate quartet, the sweeping main orchestra and distant and almost church organ-like quality of the smaller second orchestra.

Best,
Jay

Outstanding Jay - thanks for the extra time telling us your work methods.


Rob

Hello Jay,

the strings' ensembles movements are very well done.

I am curious to know your reference recording for this piece.

I totally agree with you concerning the layering technique
but on the foreground
i always layer
chamber and solo strings only,
leaving
appassionata on the background (quieter).

I am still not a fan of Altiverb though.

What a perfectionist you are.
Bravo.

Thank you.

Thanks Iorenzo. I have literally about a dozen recordings of this work but 2 of my favorites are conducted by Barbirolli and Marriner.

Best,
Jay

yes a masterpiece of writing and sampling I agree completely.

There are other forums where people say that appassionata isn't worth the money. Well....I think this demo could change their mind. If they say it doesn't sound realistic compared to most libraries they are smoking something harsh.

I'd give Jay's work a 96% on what sound realistic through the entire piece. Especially do a common listeners ear.

I guess what' I'm trying to say is "DAMN GOOD JOB JAY"

Amazing musical and technical effort, Jay. Bravo! I can't stop listening to it. We are really close to the point where great sample libraries and greatly talented users will be capable of better performances than average-skilled and not-so-well-recorded orchestras. I never thought I'd say that.

Great job.

I haven't listened to William's cues yet, but will do so very soon.

Alex - thanks a lot! Also Rob and mathis!

On that march I forgot to mention one thing tht Dave brought up - the instrumentation is for a relatively small group of 3 trumpets, 2 horns, 3 trombones, tuba and percussion. After all the discussion of DVZ, and having seen the video, I have been thinking more about the question of artificial doubling of player numbers with chords. So I decided to tryand be "pure" on this piece. It has no doubling at all. I have 5 trumpets total, and when the scoring is broken into a three note chord, it is five trumpets, when they are playing unison it is five trumpets. etc. Same with trombones and horns, though I used the 8 horn ensemble simply because the Epic horns are so awesome. So this is just as "pure" as any DVZ performance you will ever get, in both articulations AND player numbers.

" We are really close to the point where great sample libraries and greatly talented users will be capable of better performances than average-skilled and not-so-well-recorded orchestras. I never thought I'd say that. " - Luca A

Actiually we are already at that point and somewhat beyond. This piece was played live by respectable college student players on three separate occasions. The VI samples (not necessarily my performance but the samples) are far better. Trust me on that one [8-)]

I've been trying to download the mp3 from

http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=12&DemoId=5007

but keep getting an error message - is this link broken?

hmm ... i'm getting simply nothing .... what does the message say?

meanwhile please use this link - right or ctrl click and select *save as* to download

although the file is 27 MB this shouldn't prevent the download ... possibly some kind of corruption about which the player does not care ...
christian

It says:

"The page cannot be displayed
There is a problem with the page you are trying to reach and it cannot be displayed.

HTTP 500 - Internal server error
Internet Explorer"

A classic error message, I think you'll agree - crushingly boring, yet totally informative. Thanks for the link - a player opens and I can hear the music, but I'd prefer to download the file and listen to it offline.

as mentioned ... right (=win) or control (=mac) click the link and select *save as* from the context menu ...

but thx for the errornumber ... it points into a direction i've already assumed ... not too boring for me [;)]
christian

Thanks cm, I should have read your message more carefully. Beautiful piece, excellent programming. I am curious how you achieve the lovely volume swells and decrescendos Jay - do you use a physical controller and create them live, or do you draw volume curves on screen? Congratulations on a fine demo.

Thanks, Conquer.

I draw in all the expression and volume curves using the mouse in my sequencer. I imagine that if I learned to use the modwheel live I could work much faster. Others have also had success using breath controllers. But I'm afraid I'm somewhat set in my ways. I also find it helpful to see the visuals of the curves I am drawing as I imagine the shape of the phrases that I'd like to create.

Best,
Jay

Thanks for the info Jay. I guess the advantage of using mod wheel for expression is you can do it in real time, but the total control offered by the graphic method is appealing! I quite fancy using some kind of MIDI fader for the job, but haven't found the right physical controller for this yet.

Very nice - the cello is SO rich! Sounds great.

Btw - I beleive his name was Ralph and not Ralf?

Silly question... but Jay, after downloading the zipfile of presets & MIDI file, where do the presets (fxp files) go so I can access them with VI? Your mockup of this is brilliant... I can't wait to dive into your presets!

Kerry

When you move the preset files in your "Custom Directory" you will see all the files in the VI (in the Preset browser on the right side of the Preset page)

best
Herb

Danke!

Hi Jay, brilliant piece, could you please advise me? I have the full VI solo strings, and now am contemplating the Chamber and Appassionatta, I was only going to go the Standard versions for now. However is there a preference for either getting the Standard and Extended for either of these libraries? I'm trying to decide what would be more fruitful the full Appassionatta or full Chamber ? Love your work, you are so talented, wonderful, and curious if you used the extended versions as well on this piece?
Thanks for your help...