i don't think this is about high technology prices, this is about the fact that the special edition clearly is priced *relative* to it's content as directly *compared to* the full VSL. It does not devalue the full version whatsoever, it is *derived* from it. I dont' think there is anything negative about this package, it is naturally a progression of what VSL CAN release given it's resources at one time. first do the full package, then release the scaled down version, it's a natural progression, I don't see any fault lying with VSL whatsoever, far from it, it's an excellent product many people have asked for and will be happy now that it is here. [:)]

Miklos

@stevesong said:

On the other hand, Nick, the 7' Steinway B (made in 1897) that I bought in 1980 for $900 (!!!) is now worth over $80,000! Unlimited polyphony and dynamic range too. Nothing beats those acoustic instruments!

Please Stevesong, come on !, you compare your very old and small Steinway with a young, (less than 10years old) one [[;)]]
You're mistaking it with a Concert Grand - Model D
http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_d.shtml">http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_d.shtml

That one worth $80,000 (not new)

well, i'm a opus 1 user on gigastudio 2 and i'm soooo happy that i can use the great VI interface soon with my old an new(!) samples.

and the price for opus 1 user is really a gift!

thanks to the vsl team

Straying even farther, I wonder whether the reason the newer Steinway doesn't sound as exciting as the older one is because they don't make them as well anymore, or just because pianos improve with age as things warp and settle.

Or whether this particular one just happens to be on the tame side.

Laurent:

If you go to http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_b.shtml you will learn that the Steinway B is not so "small" but at 211cm (6' 10-1/2" inches) long is the second largest of the American Steinway grands - - the Steinway D Concert Grand (274cm /8' 11 3/4") being the largest. The Model C is larger (227cm/7'-51/2") than the B, but, according to the Steinway website, is available only from Hamburg.

As to the value of my piano, I simply quoted the appraisal made by very respected technician (formely a Steinway Concert Artists tech). Maybe he was wrong, but my insurance company accepted it. It doesn't matter otherwise as I never intend to sell this instrument.

Stevesong, I'm sure your Steinway sound very well and the most important is that you like it.
Maybe I refer too much to the Steinway PIanos of the Mannes College of Music in NYC.
As you know most piano buit a century ago have a great sound but nothing common with the actual technique. Maybe that's a question of taste…

Laurent:

My piano is more than 100 years old but it has an accelerated action from the late 1940's and relatively new hammers. What I've discovered is that if you have basic instrument that is good what you need is a great technican who will work with you to achieve the sound and keyboard response you want. A piano is not condemned to have one kind of sound or one kind of response - - almost every aspect of its performance can be modified. My technician asks me: "Do you like the action as it is or would you like it to be heavier or lighter? What kind of sound do you want in the bass, midrange, treble? What tuning do you want?" etc. People unfamiliar with what a truly good technician can achieve often think that a particular piano's sound and response are relatively fixed - - and that there is only one correct tempered tuning, but, in my experience, this is not so.

And, speaking age, would you characterize a 350 year old Amati viola or a 300 year old Stradivarius violin as very "old" - - with the implication that their great age made them less good than currently produced instruments? Like my piano, these instruments have been modified - - none, for example, have the original necks. (The original necks were much shorter than those used on modern instruments. Violinists and composers wanted to extend the high range of the instrument. To achieve this, the original necks were replaced with longer ones.)

The most magnificent viola I've ever heard is the Amati owned by Masumi Per Rostad, violist of the Pacifica Quartet. It is slightly larger than the standard sized viola (it was made before there was a "standard" size for the viola) but, despite its being over 350 years old, there is nothing geriatric about its huge and beautiful sound - - at least in Masumi's hands.

This is very interesting - thanks stevesong for your comments I read with interest!

Miklos.

Miklos:

Thanks

@stevesong said:

Laurent:

My piano is more than 100 years old but it has an accelerated action from the late 1940's and relatively new hammers. What I've discovered is that if you have basic instrument that is good what you need is a great technican who will work with you to achieve the sound and keyboard response you want. A piano is not condemned to have one kind of sound or one kind of response - - almost every aspect of its performance can be modified. My technician asks me: "Do you like the action as it is or would you like it to be heavier or lighter? What kind of sound do you want in the bass, midrange, treble? What tuning do you want?" etc. People unfamiliar with what a truly good technician can achieve often think that a particular piano's sound and response are relatively fixed - - and that there is only one correct tempered tuning, but, in my experience, this is not so.

And, speaking age, would you characterize a 350 year old Amati viola or a 300 year old Stradivarius violin as very "old" - - with the implication that their great age made them less good than currently produced instruments? Like my piano, these instruments have been modified - - none, for example, have the original necks. (The original necks were much shorter than those used on modern instruments. Violinists and composers wanted to extend the high range of the instrument. To achieve this, the original necks were replaced with longer ones.)

The most magnificent viola I've ever heard is the Amati owned by Masumi Per Rostad, violist of the Pacifica Quartet. It is slightly larger than the standard sized viola (it was made before there was a "standard" size for the viola) but, despite its being over 350 years old, there is nothing geriatric about its huge and beautiful sound - - at least in Masumi's hands.

Stevesong, a good technician can do a lot of things…change the hammers, pick them and make small holes to get a softer sound.
Within a certain limite, a very good and rare technician can even move the entire keyboard and find a better sound balance.
You can't compare a 100 years old Steinway with a Stradivarius ! or compare their prices and their avaibility, there is nothing common…
The Steinways pianos and technique have changed a lot over he years.
If your technician achieved a very good sound, that's perfect, but the steinway of today is complelty different, the way of playing it too.
I mean you technician seems very talented but the fact that your piano is labeled "steinway" or "x" may have not hat much to do with his today's sound.
The "good" Steinways start after 1970. Before, there was a lot of imperfections that have been improved with the time.

In my experience what Stevesong says is quite right, a technician can do wonders for a sound on a piano and there is a surprising amount of flexibility there. Whether his particular piano sounds good or not, I'm sure clearly to his mind it sounds good to him and that is what is important. Plus it is clearly a rare and precious instrument regardless of the technical aspects involved - simply for it's age and that it is in playable condition!

I don't' mean to sound argumentative, just contributing.. [:)]
Miklos.

Laurent:

Each of us has his or her own opinion regarding what the best years for Steinway pianos are.

I want, however, to thank you for your brave, completely unsolicited, initiative in stepping in to offer instruction as to the defective nature of my "very old and very small" piano. Blissfully deluded and ignorant as I was, I had been extremely happy with this piano for many years and even thought myself lucky to have found it - - until you revealed my delusion and made me painfully aware of its defects. What is even more remarkable is that your extraordinary perceptive powers allowed you to arrive at this judgement without ever having actually seen or heard the instrument in question. (My insurance agent, lacking such powers, foolishly accepted the appraised value of my piano.)

On the one purely factual matter at issue, I think we must agree that, according to Steinway, the model B is 211 cm in length - - but, again, whether this means that the Model B is large, medium, small or "very small" is entirely a matter of opinion. (If size matters to you, you might check out the Rubenstein R371 - - 371 cm in length. You can see and read about it at http://www.rubensteinpianos.com/)

Thanks again for your instruction and help.

I should add that my mom likes that subdued Steinway, so you're right that we all have our opinions. But she does agree that the other one is better.

Nick:

Quite so! [:)]

I just wanted to voice my own impression of VI SE, especially for those of us who own Opus 1 and qualify for the US$60 upgrade. It seems to me that for $60, VI SE is a nice way to "try out" several of the VI libraries. It's a bit crippled in that many articulations are missing, but still, there's certainly useful stuff there, and as I said, it's almost like paying $60 to get a fully functional preview of VI. Is this a fair assessment?

@MDesigner said:

I just wanted to voice my own impression of VI SE, especially for those of us who own Opus 1 and qualify for the US$60 upgrade. It seems to me that for $60, VI SE is a nice way to "try out" several of the VI libraries. It's a bit crippled in that many articulations are missing, but still, there's certainly useful stuff there, and as I said, it's almost like paying $60 to get a fully functional preview of VI. Is this a fair assessment?

Well.. I don't know about that, one does have to buy the standard edition at regular price after all... if it was only $60 who could question or complain about anything? [:P] [[;)]]

It IS $60 for Opus 1 owners like myself.

@MDesigner said:

It IS $60 for Opus 1 owners like myself.

No, the Extended IS $60. You have to buy the Standard first to qualify for the Extended.

DG

The email newsletter says:

@Another User said:

Registered users of Opus 1...are eligible to purchase the Extended Library of the Vienna Special Edition at the VIP price of only EUR45/US-$60, saving EUR420/US-$535!

So let me get this straight. If I wanted the VI SE Standard, I have to pay US$445. But if I want VI SE Extended, I pay only $60. I don't think I have to buy Standard first, it doesn't make any sense.. then it's not really a deal anymore since the difference between Standard & Ext is $150, so this deal only saves me $90.

This is a bit confusing.