@Nick Batzdorf said:

My big problem with acoustic pianos is that they lack the MIDI In my keyboard skills require. [:)]

Have you tried a Disklavier?

DG

Herb,

So sorry to not be clear: yes the legato repetition samples are included and that is important.

I was referring to the SHORT note repetitions. As First and Pro Edition (and Horizon) users are aware, the repetition tool has always been the most difficult to tame until the brilliant VI player.

It is the feature I lust after the most.

Clark

I see myself using this not solely for sketches, but also for solo woodwinds in particular for final compositions.

Nick:

I was walking down the street in Boston past M. Steinert and sons, the official Steinway dealer in Boston. in the window was a sign advertisng a Steinway B for $900. As you might imagine, I suspected that this must be a piano that came in several bags of parts, but I went inside and had a look. It was a little beaten up and the soundboard had numerous cracks - - only one of which rattled (it had spent most of its life at the New England Conservatory where, when I was student in the preparatory division, it was customary to heat the place to at least 80º F during the winter). So, realizing that despite its worn condition, this piano was the deal of the century, I bought it on the spot - - instantly emptying my bank account.

About 3 years later, the pinblock cracked - - one morning I sat down and played the first chord of the day only to observe the pins merrily twirling as the strings unwound. I called the piano technician at Juilliard whom I had known when I was grad student there, an elderly - - and saintly - - German fellow who always arrived to tune pianos in something close to black tie. After examining the piano, Herr Barth offered to replace or fix everything that needed replacing or fixing for the cost of the parts - - and to lend me a piano for free for several months - - just, he said, because he knew me and knew that I was a struggling musician who would not otherwise have the means to get my piano repaired!!!! The only condition was that no other technician be allowed near the rebuilt piano for a period of 5 years.

I, of course, was incredibly grateful. As a result, the rebuild - which took several months - was infinitely cheaper than it would have been had I had to pay the going price. (It cost about $2000 - paid in installments). As for the piano's present value - - that's what it was appraised for by my current technician. I don't plan to sell it ever.

All this informed me that amazing luck and absolutely extraordinary acts of kindness and generosity are indeed possible... [:)]

I can understand someone's consternation at spending a lot of money for any product that is the only thing available and forces the purchaser to but way beyond his actual needs. Then being bummed out when a product does come out with the basics he needs and at far cheaper price. The problem is that VSL is first and foremost a comprehensive library for those that want all that is offered in the complete cube. If SE was releasd first than you would have all kinds a disappointed people asking for a more complete library. I think SE is great but I see all the things that aren't there for my needs. I may pick it up to have some important basic instruments I don't have but it's no replacement for the individual collections that are vital for the pro user.

Since VSL has already shone that they eventually release paired down collections such as Opus I, I would have settled for that package and waited for it's VI counterpart if I was okay with just a wide ranging basic library.

Remember all the VSL protestations that "their are no plans to release a VI version of Opus 1-2" ????

This special edition looks pretty close and even better in some respects.

Great story, Steve.

You were in Boston the same time I was, by the way.

@Another User said:

Have you tried a Disklavier?

Yeah, I thought about that as I posted. That would solve the MIDI in problem, but it would create two others: 1. I'd be broke; and 2. I'd be even broker after adding onto our house to make room for the piano,

[H]

i don't think this is about high technology prices, this is about the fact that the special edition clearly is priced *relative* to it's content as directly *compared to* the full VSL. It does not devalue the full version whatsoever, it is *derived* from it. I dont' think there is anything negative about this package, it is naturally a progression of what VSL CAN release given it's resources at one time. first do the full package, then release the scaled down version, it's a natural progression, I don't see any fault lying with VSL whatsoever, far from it, it's an excellent product many people have asked for and will be happy now that it is here. [:)]

Miklos

@stevesong said:

On the other hand, Nick, the 7' Steinway B (made in 1897) that I bought in 1980 for $900 (!!!) is now worth over $80,000! Unlimited polyphony and dynamic range too. Nothing beats those acoustic instruments!

Please Stevesong, come on !, you compare your very old and small Steinway with a young, (less than 10years old) one [[;)]]
You're mistaking it with a Concert Grand - Model D
http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_d.shtml">http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_d.shtml

That one worth $80,000 (not new)

well, i'm a opus 1 user on gigastudio 2 and i'm soooo happy that i can use the great VI interface soon with my old an new(!) samples.

and the price for opus 1 user is really a gift!

thanks to the vsl team

Straying even farther, I wonder whether the reason the newer Steinway doesn't sound as exciting as the older one is because they don't make them as well anymore, or just because pianos improve with age as things warp and settle.

Or whether this particular one just happens to be on the tame side.

Laurent:

If you go to http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_b.shtml you will learn that the Steinway B is not so "small" but at 211cm (6' 10-1/2" inches) long is the second largest of the American Steinway grands - - the Steinway D Concert Grand (274cm /8' 11 3/4") being the largest. The Model C is larger (227cm/7'-51/2") than the B, but, according to the Steinway website, is available only from Hamburg.

As to the value of my piano, I simply quoted the appraisal made by very respected technician (formely a Steinway Concert Artists tech). Maybe he was wrong, but my insurance company accepted it. It doesn't matter otherwise as I never intend to sell this instrument.

Stevesong, I'm sure your Steinway sound very well and the most important is that you like it.
Maybe I refer too much to the Steinway PIanos of the Mannes College of Music in NYC.
As you know most piano buit a century ago have a great sound but nothing common with the actual technique. Maybe that's a question of taste…

Laurent:

My piano is more than 100 years old but it has an accelerated action from the late 1940's and relatively new hammers. What I've discovered is that if you have basic instrument that is good what you need is a great technican who will work with you to achieve the sound and keyboard response you want. A piano is not condemned to have one kind of sound or one kind of response - - almost every aspect of its performance can be modified. My technician asks me: "Do you like the action as it is or would you like it to be heavier or lighter? What kind of sound do you want in the bass, midrange, treble? What tuning do you want?" etc. People unfamiliar with what a truly good technician can achieve often think that a particular piano's sound and response are relatively fixed - - and that there is only one correct tempered tuning, but, in my experience, this is not so.

And, speaking age, would you characterize a 350 year old Amati viola or a 300 year old Stradivarius violin as very "old" - - with the implication that their great age made them less good than currently produced instruments? Like my piano, these instruments have been modified - - none, for example, have the original necks. (The original necks were much shorter than those used on modern instruments. Violinists and composers wanted to extend the high range of the instrument. To achieve this, the original necks were replaced with longer ones.)

The most magnificent viola I've ever heard is the Amati owned by Masumi Per Rostad, violist of the Pacifica Quartet. It is slightly larger than the standard sized viola (it was made before there was a "standard" size for the viola) but, despite its being over 350 years old, there is nothing geriatric about its huge and beautiful sound - - at least in Masumi's hands.

This is very interesting - thanks stevesong for your comments I read with interest!

Miklos.

Miklos:

Thanks

@stevesong said:

Laurent:

My piano is more than 100 years old but it has an accelerated action from the late 1940's and relatively new hammers. What I've discovered is that if you have basic instrument that is good what you need is a great technican who will work with you to achieve the sound and keyboard response you want. A piano is not condemned to have one kind of sound or one kind of response - - almost every aspect of its performance can be modified. My technician asks me: "Do you like the action as it is or would you like it to be heavier or lighter? What kind of sound do you want in the bass, midrange, treble? What tuning do you want?" etc. People unfamiliar with what a truly good technician can achieve often think that a particular piano's sound and response are relatively fixed - - and that there is only one correct tempered tuning, but, in my experience, this is not so.

And, speaking age, would you characterize a 350 year old Amati viola or a 300 year old Stradivarius violin as very "old" - - with the implication that their great age made them less good than currently produced instruments? Like my piano, these instruments have been modified - - none, for example, have the original necks. (The original necks were much shorter than those used on modern instruments. Violinists and composers wanted to extend the high range of the instrument. To achieve this, the original necks were replaced with longer ones.)

The most magnificent viola I've ever heard is the Amati owned by Masumi Per Rostad, violist of the Pacifica Quartet. It is slightly larger than the standard sized viola (it was made before there was a "standard" size for the viola) but, despite its being over 350 years old, there is nothing geriatric about its huge and beautiful sound - - at least in Masumi's hands.

Stevesong, a good technician can do a lot of things…change the hammers, pick them and make small holes to get a softer sound.
Within a certain limite, a very good and rare technician can even move the entire keyboard and find a better sound balance.
You can't compare a 100 years old Steinway with a Stradivarius ! or compare their prices and their avaibility, there is nothing common…
The Steinways pianos and technique have changed a lot over he years.
If your technician achieved a very good sound, that's perfect, but the steinway of today is complelty different, the way of playing it too.
I mean you technician seems very talented but the fact that your piano is labeled "steinway" or "x" may have not hat much to do with his today's sound.
The "good" Steinways start after 1970. Before, there was a lot of imperfections that have been improved with the time.

In my experience what Stevesong says is quite right, a technician can do wonders for a sound on a piano and there is a surprising amount of flexibility there. Whether his particular piano sounds good or not, I'm sure clearly to his mind it sounds good to him and that is what is important. Plus it is clearly a rare and precious instrument regardless of the technical aspects involved - simply for it's age and that it is in playable condition!

I don't' mean to sound argumentative, just contributing.. [:)]
Miklos.

Laurent:

Each of us has his or her own opinion regarding what the best years for Steinway pianos are.

I want, however, to thank you for your brave, completely unsolicited, initiative in stepping in to offer instruction as to the defective nature of my "very old and very small" piano. Blissfully deluded and ignorant as I was, I had been extremely happy with this piano for many years and even thought myself lucky to have found it - - until you revealed my delusion and made me painfully aware of its defects. What is even more remarkable is that your extraordinary perceptive powers allowed you to arrive at this judgement without ever having actually seen or heard the instrument in question. (My insurance agent, lacking such powers, foolishly accepted the appraised value of my piano.)

On the one purely factual matter at issue, I think we must agree that, according to Steinway, the model B is 211 cm in length - - but, again, whether this means that the Model B is large, medium, small or "very small" is entirely a matter of opinion. (If size matters to you, you might check out the Rubenstein R371 - - 371 cm in length. You can see and read about it at http://www.rubensteinpianos.com/)

Thanks again for your instruction and help.