Each is instrument is designed to get the right balance of playability, flexibility and small datasize.

Also we did a research which articulations do have major priority for our users, and which articulation do have minor priority:

Performance legato patches did have top priority, and the trills nearly no priority.

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

The possibility of expansion packs is something I'll keep an eye out for... this would be a good idea and appreciated by many in my view. [:)]

I think this a good way into VI, so I've just ordered one.

Up till now I've used Opus 1 and Pro Ed only.

@nliberg said:

I did a quick comparison and the following Opus articulations seem to be missing in SE:[list:ce45da8c41][*:ce45da8c41]Short and long détaché - both included in SE???
[*:ce45da8c41]Crescendo-diminuendo
[*:ce45da8c41]Half and whole tone trills
[*:ce45da8c41]Fortepiano
[*:ce45da8c41]Sforzatissimo
[*:ce45da8c41]Sustained with vibrato, without vibrato, progressive vibrato - all of them included in SE???
[*:ce45da8c41]Flutter tonguing, normal and crescendo[/list:u:ce45da8c41]It also seems like Glass chimes is not included. Other than that most instruments (although in some cases without all articulations/velocity layers) of Opus seem to be included. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that SE when compared to Opus focuses so much on more instruments like Saxophone, Wagner Tuba rather than on including articulations like trills and pfp. That said, I love that Epic Horns and Solo, Chamber and Appassionata strings are included.

What do you other Opus users think of the offer?

I don't know? It's still a very generous offer but having less articulations than Opus makes it less appealing that's for sure. Sure we have those in Opus but that wont be very practical.

I would jump on it if there was to be a VI SE Part 2 that would fix the missing samples, but right now I'm not sure? I'll have to think about it a little more.. But still, it's hard to pass on an offer like this.

Herb, OMG you have no idea how happy me an others would be to load this in K2!.. I understand why you do it but...

Going back to the articulation list...
[*-)]

@jc5 said:

The possibility of expansion packs is something I'll keep an eye out for

I guess VSL guys will do it, for sure, because Opus1&2 still offer much more nuances than VSE. I will order VSE but won't trash the Horizon stuff in the meanwhile.

VSE resembles me an evoluted version of Apple's Garage Band Symphony Orchestra JamPack (which uses VSL sample, of course...)

[:)]

@herb said:

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

That's very goo to hear Herb, and that will have an impact on my decision.

Thank you!

That's all we can offer, because there are distributors and dealer margins, license costs, taxes, shipping costs, manufactoring costs (4 double layer DVDs inside!) etc...
[quote]

I suppose this means I'm gonna have to by a DVD that can reed double layer DVDs righ?

Thanks!

@Simon Ravn said:

Well... I for one think this is awesome value for money, even with only 2-3 velocities.

As far as I remember, Opus 1 has 4 velocity layers (pp-p-mf-f) in standard mode (i.e. keyswitch or modwheel switch) and 2 blended layers (p-f) in performance mode. With VSE we get, respectively, 3 and 2 velocity layers; in other words we should loose 1 layer in the keyswitch/modwheel mode. Doesn't seem an irreparable loss, everything considered.
It seems, on the other hand, that with VSE we gain 1 layer in sustained woodwinds and brasses. If I'm not wrong, Opus ww/brasses have just 2 velocity layers (p-f). This is a good thing, isn't it?

[:)]

Hm, all our products are manufatcured with double layer DVDs.
(since Dezember 2002)
Are there any DVD drives which can't read double layers?

best
Herb

@herb said:

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

Either downloadable expansion packs (several small and affordable dedicated for one instrument or an instrument group) or Special Edition 2 would be appreciated. Trills especially for winds, col legnos, snap pizzicatos, some real dynamics. Appassionata strings with the same articulations as the rest of the strings. Fanfare trumpets with the basic brass articulations. Can't think of anything that would rock harder than that. [[;)]]

@herb said:

Hm, all our products are manufatcured with double layer DVDs.
(since Dezember 2002)
Are there any DVD drives which can't read double layers?

best
Herb

Maybe mine can and i just didn't know about it? [:D]

Anyway, a new DVD would be practical anyway.

P.S. or maybe i got confuse and mine just cant write double layers?

BTW, it's a well balanced package Herb, i can see that. But i think it's to be expected that Opus users would be a little disappointed to have less articulations. I just wanted to say that.

Thanks!

Getting the trills for all the instruments (brass too please - it was a head scratcher to me why the solo horn had its lovely trills, but the ensemble didn't in opus.. very frustrating too when writing!) would be a must - yes, snap pizz and col lengo for strings. I always found the Sffz patches to be pretty great in strings and brass. As someone with the full opus bundle, I must say I had gotten attached to those very stylish flautando strings.. getting those with (dare I say it?) true legato.. ahhh... [H]

I would also humbly submit some manner of very short note art - the regular stacs are very versatile and probably my favourites from any library, but sometimes something even more clipped is needed - staccatisimos, or spiccati in string instruments.. perhaps some form of the performance reps, those are fairly short? Ideally there would be at least 3 RR reps for these, 4 better for all those rapid fire passages - it would add tremondous value and versatility, and I know there are actually a variety of options from which these could be culled from the full cube

@jc5 said:

Getting the trills for all the instruments (brass too please - it was a head scratcher to me why the solo horn had its lovely trills, but the ensemble didn't in opus.. very frustrating too when writing!) would be a must - yes, snap pizz and col lengo for strings. I always found the Sffz patches to be pretty great in strings and brass. As someone with the full opus bundle, I must say I had gotten attached to those very stylish flautando strings.. getting those with (dare I say it?) true legato.. ahhh... [H]

I would also humbly submit some manner of very short note art - the regular stacs are very versatile and probably my favourites from any library, but sometimes something even more clipped is needed - staccatisimos, or spiccati in string instruments.. perhaps some form of the performance reps, those are fairly short? Ideally there would be at least 3 RR reps for these, 4 better for all those rapid fire passages - it would add tremondous value and versatility, and I know there are actually a variety of options from which these could be culled from the full cube

Agree 100%! (just wanted to point that out [:)]

As a new user to this forum and not owning any VSL products, I checked with Herb to see if my question would be fine. He said yes.

How do you feel VSL SE stacks up against EW Gold? I have seen many discussions comparing it to the cube and Opus, but it is now priced against Emerald and a bit below EW Gold. I have only found one demo, so I am not sure if there are other data points from which to draw comparisons. Guy's demo was very diverse and interesting, and I appreciate him taking the time to share it.

I'm also new to VSL Forum and products (I only own the excellent Glass & Stones - no legato stuff) so I may ask for a two letters answer, if it's the case please be my guest:

Using a combination of different perf-leg strings programs available in SE (Solo, Chamber, Orch.) and some solid MIDI skills, is it possible to fake decent trills?

[[[:|]]] "Trills have nearly no priority" [[[:|]]]

Christian

musical,

you have PM... [:D]

@cfdg said:

[...]
[[[:|]]] "Trills have nearly no priority" [[[:|]]]

Christian

("... within the Special Edition") [;)]

@musical said:

As a new user to this forum and not owning any VSL products, I checked with Herb to see if my question would be fine. He said yes.

How do you feel VSL SE stacks up against EW Gold? I have seen many discussions comparing it to the cube and Opus, but it is now priced against Emerald and a bit below EW Gold. I have only found one demo, so I am not sure if there are other data points from which to draw comparisons. Guy's demo was very diverse and interesting, and I appreciate him taking the time to share it.

It's an apples and oranges question that gets asked a lot, since SE is just a reduced version of the larger Symphonic Cube.

Any comparison has to be done with the Gold Bundle vs. SE, and even there, you can only really compare instrument lists and articulations. Each company produced to their own individual aural vision, and the approaches are radically different. You need to look at sound and workflow, too.

You can listen to any of the VI demos because except for sampling whole step vs. chromatically, and the number of articulations you get, it's the same sound.

I have the Pro Edition at 16-bit and VI at 24-bit. The 24-bit is gorgeous sounding and is a major sonic improvement over the 16-bit.

I have KH Emerald that friends in CA bought for me. The other two libraries are radically stronger choices and worth the extra money.

@Peter Alexander said:

I have the Pro Edition at 16-bit and VI at 24-bit. The 24-bit is gorgeous sounding and is a major sonic improvement over the 16-bit.

It's really hard for me to go back to 16 bit samples after having used 24 bit samples. I use to think that gold sounded good and still does but once i got SISS in 24 bit i got to say Gold sounds kind of cheap in comparison. I would assume it's the same with VSL.

@Anonymous Joe said:

It's really hard for me to go back to 16 bit samples after having used 24 bit samples. I use to think that gold sounded good and still does but once i got SISS in 24 bit i got to say Gold sounds kind of cheap in comparison. I would assume it's the same with VSL.

That's comparing rotten apples with a screwdriver. The quality of the recording means a lot more than the bit depth of the samples. Then there is the sample engine and your equipment that have an effect on the sound quality. The difference between 16 bit and 24 bit end product is almost negligible if both are made from 24 bit source files and the possible editing has been done in 24 bits.

Since SE will pitch-shift every other sample I wonder if the VI engine suffers from any aliasing problems. Anyone who knows?
I'm a little bit worried about this since the other VI instruments are chromatically sampled and hence aliasing might not have been a concern earlier.
I didn't worry much about aliasing earlier, but when the later versions of Kontakt2 introduced new high-quality interpolation modes I noticed a big difference for some of my whole-note samled instruments.