now that the detailed articulation lists are out, it is clear that the special edition is not really a replacement for opus 1 & 2 since it does not only restrict the number of articulations but what´s worse also cuts the number of layers from something between 4 to 6 down to 3.

i would have prefered to pay (considerably) more to have the full opus content included, but probably for many new users these restrictions are not an issue at that price.

in any case it is fair that you provide all details. i for one still think that even with these restrictions its an amazing deal and don´t regret ordering before seeing the articulation list.

however, i am really puzzled, that whereas both the catalog and the product info include portato articulations for woodwinds and brass, the new list doesn´t - i really hope this is a typo since their lack would be a _huge_ restriction ...

another question: which detache version is included 0´3s, 0´5s or both?

Hi and thanks for putting on the detailed articulations list.

I honestly think that this package is a steal, but personally I saw that just 2 alternate staccato notes are available. On sus or legato articulations I fully understand, but on staccato?

The thing is, through the enclosed player you are not even able to apply or reprogram articulations via K2 scripts or so.

So, cool deal, but not for me ...

This would be a great laptop companion product for those of us who have the full Symphonic VI Cube + VI II - I don't suppose we get it any cheaper (as in £free) as we own all the samples anyway ?

Here's hoping...

If you own the Symphonic Cube you get also the VIP price for extended.

That's all we can offer, because there are distributors and dealer margins, license costs, taxes, shipping costs, manufactoring costs (4 double layer DVDs inside!) etc...

best
Herb

Well... I for one think this is awesome value for money, even with only 2-3 velocities. Beats GPO hands down times 10000 to infinity and back again for sure [H] VSL sounds 100 times better than GPO, has true legato and all the other features. I realize that VSL SE in its standard edition is 1,5-2 times the price of GPO, but you get quality samples and performances for a lot of instruments for this price. I will personally use it for if/when I need to compose on a laptop. I also think it's great that samples has been reduced to whole tone, so I can load more stuff into one machine - exactly how much taht can be fitted into 2-3 GB RAM remains to be seen.

I can live with the reduced layers and articulations because I'll use VSE as a sketch tool (with an attitude, as Simon said [;)] ).

The Major treat would be the RS, are those still there?

Thanx

Christian

All release samples included.

best
Herb

edit: (except Bosendorfer)

I just ordered mine. Next time you should aim for instant shipping after announcement. There is absolutely no limit to the impatience involved with this kind of deals. [:D]

I did a quick comparison and the following Opus articulations seem to be missing in SE:[list:17405ae088][*:17405ae088]Short and long détaché - both included in SE???
[*:17405ae088]Crescendo-diminuendo
[*:17405ae088]Half and whole tone trills
[*:17405ae088]Fortepiano
[*:17405ae088]Sforzatissimo
[*:17405ae088]Sustained with vibrato, without vibrato, progressive vibrato - all of them included in SE???
[*:17405ae088]Flutter tonguing, normal and crescendo[/list:u:17405ae088]It also seems like Glass chimes is not included. Other than that most instruments (although in some cases without all articulations/velocity layers) of Opus seem to be included. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that SE when compared to Opus focuses so much on more instruments like Saxophone, Wagner Tuba rather than on including articulations like trills and pfp. That said, I love that Epic Horns and Solo, Chamber and Appassionata strings are included.

What do you other Opus users think of the offer?

@nliberg said:

I did a quick comparison and the following Opus articulations seem to be missing in SE:[list:1c8fe98e58][*:1c8fe98e58]Short and long détaché - both included in SE???
[*:1c8fe98e58]Crescendo-diminuendo
[*:1c8fe98e58]Half and whole tone trills
[*:1c8fe98e58]Fortepiano
[*:1c8fe98e58]Sforzatissimo
[*:1c8fe98e58]Sustained with vibrato, without vibrato, progressive vibrato - all of them included in SE???
[*:1c8fe98e58]Flutter tonguing, normal and crescendo[/list:u:1c8fe98e58]It also seems like Glass chimes is not included. Other than that most instruments (although in some cases without all articulations/velocity layers) of Opus seem to be included. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that SE when compared to Opus focuses so much on more instruments like Saxophone, Wagner Tuba rather than on including articulations like trills and pfp. That said, I love that Epic Horns and Solo, Chamber and Appassionata strings are included.

What do you other Opus users think of the offer?

Some of my early enthusiasm has been rather curbed with the full art list out now... there is rather too much missing.. [*-)]

The inclusion of all the extra instruments is a great thing in my opinion, I would love to have working sample sets of all that.. the rarer instruments like basset horn or wagner tuba done in vsl style are a joy to me.. [:)] the reduced dynamic layers is less good - but I could live with that if the articulation selection were a little fuller... as things stand I would still have to supplement with my original opus set or other libraries, and that rather detracts from the concept.. at this stage a package like this that could really stand on its own and be loaded into one computer (albeit a farily high powered one) was quite appealing to me..

Freedom from the performance tool and legato patches for all the new instruments is a great thing... but the real glory of VSL has always been the thoroughness and in depth detail of the instruments ... and yes, I am not insane and expect the fullness of the actual Cube for this price, but having to look elsewhere for basics like trills that even a dinosour like AO included is unfortunate in my view.. this can't really be viewed as an opus upgrade at all... [:(]

Even 1 or 2 well chosen dynamic layers of the missing arts would change my tune...

Each is instrument is designed to get the right balance of playability, flexibility and small datasize.

Also we did a research which articulations do have major priority for our users, and which articulation do have minor priority:

Performance legato patches did have top priority, and the trills nearly no priority.

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

The possibility of expansion packs is something I'll keep an eye out for... this would be a good idea and appreciated by many in my view. [:)]

I think this a good way into VI, so I've just ordered one.

Up till now I've used Opus 1 and Pro Ed only.

@nliberg said:

I did a quick comparison and the following Opus articulations seem to be missing in SE:[list:ce45da8c41][*:ce45da8c41]Short and long détaché - both included in SE???
[*:ce45da8c41]Crescendo-diminuendo
[*:ce45da8c41]Half and whole tone trills
[*:ce45da8c41]Fortepiano
[*:ce45da8c41]Sforzatissimo
[*:ce45da8c41]Sustained with vibrato, without vibrato, progressive vibrato - all of them included in SE???
[*:ce45da8c41]Flutter tonguing, normal and crescendo[/list:u:ce45da8c41]It also seems like Glass chimes is not included. Other than that most instruments (although in some cases without all articulations/velocity layers) of Opus seem to be included. I must say that I'm a bit surprised that SE when compared to Opus focuses so much on more instruments like Saxophone, Wagner Tuba rather than on including articulations like trills and pfp. That said, I love that Epic Horns and Solo, Chamber and Appassionata strings are included.

What do you other Opus users think of the offer?

I don't know? It's still a very generous offer but having less articulations than Opus makes it less appealing that's for sure. Sure we have those in Opus but that wont be very practical.

I would jump on it if there was to be a VI SE Part 2 that would fix the missing samples, but right now I'm not sure? I'll have to think about it a little more.. But still, it's hard to pass on an offer like this.

Herb, OMG you have no idea how happy me an others would be to load this in K2!.. I understand why you do it but...

Going back to the articulation list...
[*-)]

@jc5 said:

The possibility of expansion packs is something I'll keep an eye out for

I guess VSL guys will do it, for sure, because Opus1&2 still offer much more nuances than VSE. I will order VSE but won't trash the Horizon stuff in the meanwhile.

VSE resembles me an evoluted version of Apple's Garage Band Symphony Orchestra JamPack (which uses VSL sample, of course...)

[:)]

@herb said:

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

That's very goo to hear Herb, and that will have an impact on my decision.

Thank you!

That's all we can offer, because there are distributors and dealer margins, license costs, taxes, shipping costs, manufactoring costs (4 double layer DVDs inside!) etc...
[quote]

I suppose this means I'm gonna have to by a DVD that can reed double layer DVDs righ?

Thanks!

@Simon Ravn said:

Well... I for one think this is awesome value for money, even with only 2-3 velocities.

As far as I remember, Opus 1 has 4 velocity layers (pp-p-mf-f) in standard mode (i.e. keyswitch or modwheel switch) and 2 blended layers (p-f) in performance mode. With VSE we get, respectively, 3 and 2 velocity layers; in other words we should loose 1 layer in the keyswitch/modwheel mode. Doesn't seem an irreparable loss, everything considered.
It seems, on the other hand, that with VSE we gain 1 layer in sustained woodwinds and brasses. If I'm not wrong, Opus ww/brasses have just 2 velocity layers (p-f). This is a good thing, isn't it?

[:)]

Hm, all our products are manufatcured with double layer DVDs.
(since Dezember 2002)
Are there any DVD drives which can't read double layers?

best
Herb

@herb said:

I could be, that we will offer expansion packs (maybe downloadable) in the fufure (please don't ask for details now, because I don't know any details at the moment).

best
Herb

Either downloadable expansion packs (several small and affordable dedicated for one instrument or an instrument group) or Special Edition 2 would be appreciated. Trills especially for winds, col legnos, snap pizzicatos, some real dynamics. Appassionata strings with the same articulations as the rest of the strings. Fanfare trumpets with the basic brass articulations. Can't think of anything that would rock harder than that. [[;)]]

@herb said:

Hm, all our products are manufatcured with double layer DVDs.
(since Dezember 2002)
Are there any DVD drives which can't read double layers?

best
Herb

Maybe mine can and i just didn't know about it? [:D]

Anyway, a new DVD would be practical anyway.

P.S. or maybe i got confuse and mine just cant write double layers?

BTW, it's a well balanced package Herb, i can see that. But i think it's to be expected that Opus users would be a little disappointed to have less articulations. I just wanted to say that.

Thanks!