@peter0302 said:

I don't have VSL First Edition but I just have a question for all of you: why do you want to upgrade to Opus 1? Why is the free expansion DVD not enough?

Because of all the stuff in OPUS 1 that is not found in the DVD Update and in our First Edition. Figure it out Peter, I mean come on, why ask a question for which the answer does not even concern you? We current First Edition users understand the differences pretty clearly. Some of us are wanting a VIP upgrade as noted by the responses here, and some of us would rather go to Pro Edition. (Only those who want to go to the pro Edition kind of disrespectfully voted NO without consideration for those wanting a VIP price. Of course a VIP upgrade price is optional. No one demands that you must upgrade to OPUS 1.) This thread is to vote for the option of a VIP upgrade. Everything else at VSL has a corresponding VIP upgrade price. I'm just asking for consistency. Maybe in the next 48 hours I'll post a rundown for everyone who doesn't understand, here.

And Peter please try to honor my request for this thread to be responded to by only First Edition owners (read the first post please). Otherwise this thread is going to turn into mush.

I'm sure you're a cool guy but I'm just not needing responses from people who don't understand the issues. I wanted this thread to be highly streamlined and sterilized from ignorance (I use this word in the classical sense not in the offensive sense).

perhaps you are someone who is thinking of buying the First Edition to later upgrade to the OPUS 1, I am not sure. But this is best left to another thread. here I just want to collect a census of the number of people proportionate to this board in terms of percentage that would like to see an VIP option on the OPUS 1 since it absolutely contains samples already owned by First Edition users. it's really quite obvious but for some reason the VSL team seems to be requiring some "reason" to be fair. So I want to give it to them in the form of concensus.

Thanks,
Evan Evans

@JohnA said:

NO

I'd rather spend the extra to get the PRO Edition - more comprehensive coverage of the additional instruments makes the difference for me.

Thanks john.

But might you say Yes so that others could have the option? Maybe I wasn't clear about that in the original. We're just asking for the option. We're not twisting your arm and making you choose between a VIP for Pro and VIP for OPUS 1.

just thought I'd clarify that.

Thanks,
Evan Evans

@Fred Story said:

NO

When I bought first Edition, I understood clearly what I was getting for the price, and that as a VIP member, I had an upgrade path to the Pro Edition and Symphonic Cube. That was the promise made to me by VSL, and they're keeping it. Why should I expect them to include any NEW product they happen to introduce along the way?

I see. That is a very valiant viewpoint. honorable.

But what about the essence of the VIP program itself? It was designed to make sure that no person ever pays twice for the same samples. There are overlapping samples in OPUS 1. What happens if a first edition owner buys OPUS 1 (which is highly possible since it's much cheaper than PRO and still retains many of the same instruments for half price)? They just payed $4500 and have quite a few duplicate samples they just payed for. Do you see our point on this?

Evan Evans

@evanevans said:

Maybe I wasn't clear about that in the original. We're just asking for the option. We're not twisting your arm and making you choose between a VIP for Pro and VIP for OPUS 1.

You're right, I was confusing that. One would think that those who wish to buy Opus 1 should be able to do so using the VIP system. I suppose the VSL team didn't anticipate the demand for it...?
So
YES

Evan,

Like Herb's vote on bass clarinet vs. contra bassoon on the free update DVD, I find it interesting that you're lobbying others to your point of view when they don't agree.

My point of view is obviously different from yours. You see, I have employees. I have substantial overhead. We operate in a very competitive marketplace. Therefore I've had to spend a lot of time over the years learning about business in addition to the time spent honing my craft. Herb has employees. He has overhead. He operates in a very competitive marketplace. I can relate to Herb as a businessman as well as an artist. (We all have a PROFOUND appreciation for what he's accomplished as an artist.)

My First Edition purchase was a business decision. It was based on my evaluation of the quality of the product, and partially on VSL's agreement on a specific upgrade path. It's worth what I paid for it, and they're keeping their agreement. It's as simple as that.

I understand you holding them to their "you'll never pay for a sample twice" promise. But I want VSL to be creating amazing new tools for us next year, and the year after that. To do that, they have to make money. How are they going to make money if we as customers hold their feet to the fire demanding free or reduced-price updates every time they offer a new product?

So I'm afraid I relate to Herb a little more on this one. Based on what I read in these forums, I see him continue to bend over backwards to please his customers, and they just keep demanding more and more. If I were in his shoes (and this is just ME talking), I'd be asking, "Geez, when is it enough?"

Fred Story
Concentrix Music and Sound Design
www.concentrixmusic.com

Nobody has yet explained what will be on Opus 1 that won't be included in the First Edition after the DVD upgrade. Sounds like people are just getting greedy.

evenevans,

You are criticizing everyone who disagrees with you. That is wrong. These people have a perfect right to express their opinion. And pointedly excluding someone like Peter from this is rude.

Also, I have to say I'm not responding to this because Herb has already gone so far beyond anybody I've ever encountered in fairness and support that to ask for more is pushing it. Herb's "fault" you say ????? If everybody in the world had "faults" like Herb there would probably be no war or crime and universal brotherly love.

And don't fire off an angry response - I have a right to disagree and don't appreciate people slamming me if I do.

@Another User said:

So I'm afraid I relate to Herb a little more on this one. Based on what I read in these forums, I see him continue to bend over backwards to please his customers, and they just keep demanding more and more. If I were in his shoes (and this is just ME talking), I'd be asking, "Geez, when is it enough?"

When there is the appropriate VIP upgrade price on the OPUS 1. That IS enough. In exchange, most of us would gladly see him remove the extra stuff recently additionally promised for the free update, which is seemingly some attempt at satisfying those who wanted what's on the OPUS 1, and instead, allow us to purchase the OPUS 1 at a price that Herb is comfortable with and is a VIP price.

Evan Evans

Even, no answer to my question? What on Earth is in Opus 1 that you are not going to get from your First Edition DVD Upgrade?

@peter0302 said:

Nobody has yet explained what will be on Opus 1 that won't be included in the First Edition after the DVD upgrade. Sounds like people are just getting greedy.

Well, I'll post a rundown then of the differences. Right off the bat I can think of all those performance instruments which are the "gold" to so many VSL users.

Evan Evans

@Another User said:

And don't fire off an angry response - I have a right to disagree and don't appreciate people slamming me if I do.

The intensity of the slam can be directly proportionate to the level of disagreement you choose to state. Everyone get's what they deserve in the end. But from how I see it, I am not angry at you. I don't intend to fire off an angry response. It is not anger to disagree.

Evan Evans

Yes.

"It is not anger to disagree."

That's a great point and I don't mean to sound too critical myself. I guess the main thing that concerns me is the tone of "forcing" the company to do absolutely everything you want immediately. In general the concept you have of applying "never pay for a sample twice" is of course right, but it's got to be feasible for the VSL to produce as well. So I'm still not sure this is something to demand.

Are you worried about people who own the orchestra cube without the performance set?

I guess just the logistics of how to implement every possible upgrade but still come up with new products. It is extremely complex especially from the financing standpoint.

@William said:

"It is not anger to disagree."

That's a great point and I don't mean to sound too critical myself. I guess the main thing that concerns me is the tone of "forcing" the company to do absolutely everything you want immediately. In general the concept you have of applying "never pay for a sample twice" is of course right, but it's got to be feasible for the VSL to produce as well. So I'm still not sure this is something to demand.

Completely reasonable and valid. Just doing my part while I have time in sweeping up the dust if I can.

Oh, and I, we, are not demanding it. Just that a lot fo people expected it as it seemed to be a standard at VSL, and that enough people desire it to create enough pressure for the demand. But no one is individually demanding it.

Thanks for the "truce". [:)]

Evan Evans

My vote : No, not necessarily

My qualification:
---
*Recent* purchaser of the First Edition. In fact, I may be a bit of a poster boy for the topic. See, I was desparately looking for the most cost efficient way to get the sonic wonder that is VSL. i compared other libraries. I debated internally for weeks (much to my wife's dismay... "just go ahead and get it already!"). And now, weeks later, comes a product that seems very much targeted to someone like me. A broad, yet somewhat vertical slice of the VSL library. For less than $1000 even. How I wish I had waited and then could add the Solo Strings too!!

My explanation:
---
The VIP program offers credit along a specific upgrade path. Product 1.0 + $marginal = Product 2.0. The fact that the key sub-Products were included in the program was cool. This is quite unusual (though not unheard of), for most software. Many times, this kind of upgradeability occurs within the context of some kind of periodic payments.

However, it was forseeable that further sub-products could emerge from the set that originally existed. I don't, however, think it is reasonable to assume or expect that the VIP program should cover all such products. Unless there was a more specific context, I interpret the "not paying for samples twice" idea as an explanation of the benefit of buying First Edition and being able to upgrade to Pro, *not* a general rule of the VIP program.

I read the VIP program as "your initial cost is forever credited to upgrades in this line of products". I expect them to honor that program. I made a choice in my own time and in my own way, and could have waited and ended up better off. But I can't expect Herb to compensate for that. (Though if he wants to send Solo Strings and Overdrive to my house for free -- even under an NDA -- I won't mind one bit! [:D] )

Thanks,
Carlos

p.s. I had no clue about a free upgrade DVD. How long does it take to get shipped? I'm also anxious to see what is on it.

@Another User said:

I read the VIP program as "your initial cost is forever credited to upgrades in this line of products". I expect them to honor that program. I made a choice in my own time and in my own way, and could have waited and ended up better off. But I can't expect Herb to compensate for that. (Though if he wants to send Solo Strings and Overdrive to my house for free -- even under an NDA -- I won't mind one bit! [:D] )

So, the SOLO STRINGS seem to somehow have a VIP price associated with them, even though they are in teh Horizon series. How can this be? Is this a double standard by VSL? OH YES. It is. Is it a double standard by your terms? OH YES. It is.

Evan Evans

Evan,

Although you do it respectfully and good naturedly, I must say...the lengths you go to to sway folks to your point of view are extraordinary.

Fred Story

The VIP pricing on the Solo Strings is for registered Pro Edition users only, as the Pro Edition users were supposed to have access to the missing solo viola and solo bass after they are released for all the time yet:

http://235.deatech.at/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4186

http://235.deatech.at/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=4163

http://235.deatech.at/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3589

Hansi