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  • Cubase SX2 and VSL

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    [:D] Just thought people using cubase might like to know the new freeze function works great in SX2, so you can import giga files into Halion, then if you start getting a bit stuttery, just freeze Halion and it writes an audio file for all those instruments, hey presto no stuttering and you can then open another Halion and start with another set of imports for more sounds. Could this be the answer to a ridiculous amount of RAM? And you can unfreeze the audio file to adjust any midi data, can't be bad eh! [:D]
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    Well - I work with Cubase SX 2 and the fantastic freeze function. BUT:

    Freezing is nothing else than rendering a part of your song (1 track only!)! In other means: the duration of rendering is dependant on the amount of bars you choose (start point, end point) to be rendered from 1 (!!!) instrument only. So in a large project you loose a lot of time with rendering instruments. It only makes sense when a line is really FINISHED. Re-editing will force you to re-render (re-freeze) again, again, and so on. So for large projects - freezing to me would mean "wasting" & loosing precious time. If one has that time - perfect. But professionals - I guess - are playing and editing/reediting all the time to make the tracks sound as real as possible!
    So I don't think that FREEZING really means to "progress" as far as RAM and VSL is concerned! [[;)]]
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    Thanks Matt,

    Yes I condone your point completely about the constant freezing and unfreezing for editing purposes, a real pain.

    However if you freeze halion it renders every instrument you have running on each channel upto 16 instruments admittedly into 1 freeze, better make sure you are happy with the arrangement 1st i suppose.

    I just feel it is a step in the right direction for VSTi's and samplers. Steinberg must be anticipating some healthy computers in the future, providing as they do provision for 64 VST instruments in SX2!

    Perhaps they are being slightly optimistic with that number?

    As a matter of interest do you run Gigastudio alongside Cubase, I am considering a further pc running giga to stop having to import giga files into halion.

    Cheers Anto [:)]
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    As a matter of interest do you run Gigastudio alongside Cubase, I am considering a further pc running giga to stop having to import giga files into halion

    >> Yes I do have three systems with Giga on each and one sys with Cubase & Giga on the same machine! Well from the second PC you'll have to mixdown EACH irument within GIga to import it into SX for mixing purposes...which is SH... as well for fast working!!! Imaging what time it needs to do 3 GIGA systems!!!!!!!! [[:|]]
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    Concerning Giga systems I'm trying to avoid them and getting Halion with Cubase SX to work with the VSL. I agree that the freeze function is important for more than normal amounts of layering whether it is fast or slow. Computers - Mac, PC or Super - cannot handle the amount of sounds I want to use.
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    @William said:

    Computers - Mac, PC or Super - cannot handle the amount of sounds I want to use.
    Are you sure? Tell me how many samples, and how much MB of buffer streams you are needing? I am doing quite a bit with OSX LOGIC VSL.

    I just wrote a piece using all these up and running on an OSX machine:
    Flute LEGATO
    Flute (Miroslav Vitous)
    Oboe LEGATO
    Clarinet LEGATO
    Bassoon LEGATO
    Trumpet Solo (Miroslav Vitous)
    Trumpets3 LEGATO
    Trumpets3 SUS
    Horn Solo LEGATO
    Horns4 LEGATO
    Trombones3 LEGATO
    Trombones3 SUS
    Trombones3 sffz
    Tuba LEGATO
    Harp ES
    Bosendorfer Grand Piano
    Xylophone HO-ES 1+2
    Glockenspiel ME-ES 1+2
    G-Town 16-Vel Church Toms
    G-Town 16-Vel Anvils
    Percussion Basic Set
    Timpani HA-ES + fff + sfffz (my own special timp edit)
    Hans Zimmer Ac.Guitar
    Strings SUS
    Violin Solo (Miroslav Vitous)
    Violins LEGATO p+f
    Violins Stac1+2
    Violins 0'3s 1+2
    Violins mV 0'5s 1+2
    Violins mV-Sus+ffespr+0+RS
    Violins Dyn ALL
    Violins Dyn Spec ALL
    Violins Pizz 1+2
    Violins Slow Pizz 1+2
    Violins Tremelo ALL (Dynamics, Sus, etc.)
    Violins Trills ALL
    Violas LEGATO
    Violas Stac 1+2
    Violas mV 0'5s 1+2
    Violas mV sus+0+RS
    Violas Dyn ALL
    Violas Dyn Special ALL
    Violas Pizz ALL (Bartok, Legno, 1+2, etc.)
    Violas Trills ALL
    Violas Tremelo ALL (Dynamics, Sus, etc.)
    Cellos LEGATO
    Cellos Stac 1+2
    Cellos mV 0'5s 1+2
    Cellos mV sus+espr+0+RS
    Cellos Dyn ALL
    Cellos Dyn Special ALL
    Cellos Pizz ALL
    Cellos Trills ALL
    Cellos Tremelo ALL (Dynamics, Sus, etc.)
    D.Basses LEGATO
    D.Basses Stac 1+2
    D.Basses Sus+0+RS
    D.Basses Dyn ALL
    D.Basses Dyn Spec ALL
    D.Basses Pizz ALL
    D.Basses Trills ALL
    D.Basses Tremelo ALL

    I have all of these spread across 35 EXS24mkII instances (some have key-switching and/or modwheel switching)

    I can playback an arrangement/orchestration using these loaded instruments without approaching CPU Overload on a Dual 1.42Ghz G4 with 2GB RAM.

    All those instruments take up 15,300 loaded samples, and about 6GB of buffered streams. This streams approx. 19.4GB of VSL and 2.7GB from other libraries for a total of 22.1GB on command!

    And as I said, with normal full orchestration (nothing ridiculous, but certainly on par with major motion picture scores), I am not hitting the limit of CPU usage.

    And of course I could continue to load more samples and instruments. I estimate I could load another 40% up before Logic giving me some kind of memory error or it not knowing what to do with it all. [[:|]]

    Hope this helps. Imagine a G5 Dual 2Ghz with 8GB Ram!
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    @antoninas said:

    [:D] Just thought people using cubase might like to know the new freeze function works great in SX2, so you can import giga files into Halion, then if you start getting a bit stuttery, just freeze Halion and it writes an audio file for all those instruments, hey presto no stuttering and you can then open another Halion and start with another set of imports for more sounds. Could this be the answer to a ridiculous amount of RAM? And you can unfreeze the audio file to adjust any midi data, can't be bad eh! [:D]


    So, I use SX, but haven't jumped to SX2, yet. However, the Freeze function is really just a more convenient bounce, right? So, all those instruments are still sitting in memory, stopping you from loading any more (unless you take the time to unload everything after the freeze.)

    FXFreeze (supposedly out soon) will do a "deep freeze" that will actually unload ram. That may be at least a prototype of the magic bullet that everyone is looking for.
    -d-
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    Evanevans says "Hope this helps."

    This isn't "help." It is irritating bragging.

    It is obvious that the ability to combine 16 tracks of huge sample sets playing simultaneously into a single, clean audio track is tremendously useful. That is my only point; if you want to argue endlessly, go ahead.
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    @William said:

    "Hope this helps."

    This isn't "help." It is irritating bragging.
    Wow Dude. You are real jerk. I spent some real time last night gathering that data for you. You said a single computer would not be enough for you. It was thus relevant to inform you of the possilbities of running an OSX machine since these figures of load sizes and performance are just coming out eminintly right now.

    I was awaiting your reply to see if you needed more than that. That still might not be enough for some people. But it seems you decided to attack me instead. Hopefully I am a respected person here enough that others will see you for your real immature self now.

    And other's would have appreciated the time I spent gathering those figures in response to your statement about computers not being able to load enough sounds. It took me like 40 minutes to gather those statistics and the sound-list.

    I am NOT bragging. I am simply using ... Logic as mentioned above. If it makes you weep don't call me a braggart.

    Correct me if I am wrong but you did mean your comment to be insulting, no? That's how I read it. If you were being sarcastic than please let me know .. otherwise I'd prefer not to associate with you until you can show me why I'd want to.

    Evan Evans
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    The only thing that irritates me is that my system isn't doing that yet! I can't wait.
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    To William,

    You call Evanevans' post "bragging"!!

    I imagine he's just genuinely excited by what he's achieving and I think we should be grateful that he takes the time to do tests and post his results.

    We can all benefit and learn from this.
    I prefer the usual feelings of mutual respect normally dsiplayed on this forum.

    Regards - Colin
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    I have a lot of respect for the people on this forum and apologize - I didn't mean my previous post to be as obnoxious as it came off. I'm just in a really frustrating situation with Gigastudio on two different pcs and trying to get out of it into Halion, and am aggravated by the whole situation.
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    hey William. That's ok. i forgive you. Sorry for calling you a jerk. Friends? [:)]

    Evan Evans
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    @William said:

    It is obvious that the ability to combine 16 tracks of huge sample sets playing simultaneously into a single, clean audio track is tremendously useful. That is my only point; if you want to argue endlessly, go ahead.
    William,

    What did you mean by this? I don't understand. Are you talking about freezing tracks? Not sure what you were originally trying to say.

    Thanks,
    Evan Evans
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    Hi Evanevans,

    Yes, please let's remain friends! I was overwrought - I get that way when dealing with gigastudio.

    Yeah, that's what I meant - that having massive amounts of samples and other heavy processing activity like legato, alternation, etc. all combined neatly into a simple audio track is really good - if you're really satisfied with what you've done. I guess I used it on a very difficult project I recently finished as a way of progressing from one stage to the next, though of course it was on gigastudio and it was a relief to actually get something recorded instead of having it subject to complete annihilation at any second without the slightest warning and for no humanly understandable reason.

    There I go again - thinking about Giga******. (Wow! Correct number of substitute letters.) [6]
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    [[;)]] Bloody 'ell,

    I thought i'd started world war 3 then!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Respect to: King Bill
    and Big up' Evanevans
    nuffsaid!

    Evanevans, that is brilliant info about your pc. its put me on the right track as to what is required to run a reasonable amount of VSL, i am now thinking in terms of a dual processor with 2GB RAM, does anyone think it will be as effective on the PC platform, or am i conversing with the pickers in the middle of an apple orchard here? [H]
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    @antoninas said:

    Evanevans, that is brilliant info about your pc. its put me on the right track as to what is required to run a reasonable amount of VSL, i am now thinking in terms of a dual processor with 2GB RAM, does anyone think it will be as effective on the PC platform, or am i conversing with the pickers in the middle of an apple orchard here? [H]
    From what I know about GigaStudio (which I am an owner of), it uses RAM much more definitively than OSX. OSX is more foregiving about limitations of RAM. Although still as yet untested I believe an Apple G5 Dual 2Ghz 8GB RAM is the euivalent of 23 Giga PCs. Using that proportion, than a 1.6Ghz Apple G5 with 8GB RAM would be like 10 Giga PCs.

    On a side note, my wife bought some tissue boxes that have some hi-tech lines running down the side. The box looks like the Logic box/manual almost exactly. So I started to call them my Logc Big Box of tissues. [:)]

    Evan Evans