Hello Martin,

if you are hearing no difference between legato playing and non legato playing, I would rise up the legato treshold slider.
If this slider is set on lowest setting, only a little break of some milliseconds between two notes force the tool to play nonlegato.

best wishes
Herb

Hi Herb!

I recorded what I get so that you can check if the result I have is normal, or if there is a problem... I fixed the velocity to 70 on my MIDI controller and played some notes. You will notice that some notes are much louder than others... Also, the legato feel is strange. Is it me or what?

I played with the threshold, but that doesn't seem to help.

The file is called testcello.mp3 and is located at http://www3.telus.net/martinl/

Best regards,
Martin

Thanks for posting, Martin

first I want to make a little explanation (maybe some infos are obvious for you, so only for safety).

the mapping scheme of our legato instruments:

there are 24 main dimensions mapped which are triggered via keyswitch (automatically selected by the legato tool - it simply checks, what intervalls you play on your keyboard)
these are 12 intervallsteps up from minor second to octav, and 12 intervallsteps down. also sustains for starting notes.

so if you choose a targetnote and try playing all 24 intervallsteps to this targetnotes you will hear 24 different variations of this target-note.

the 4 strings of the cello are tuned in fifths (C - G - D - A)
so if you play a intervall larger than a fifth you can play it only on one string, on two strings, or on three strings.

If you want to hear every targetnote played on the same string you have to record intervallsteps larger than a quint over 3 strings.
That means this large intervallsteps sounds not homogeneous, and it is of course not as legato as possible, because the bow have to leave the strings for a short moment not to touch the string inbetween.

So we decided to record (in this patch) the intervallsteps on one string.

If you combine in a melodic line a larger intervall followed by a smaller one, you will hear (on some keys) a change between the strings.

Thats the problem I hear in your demo.

We are now recording intervallsteps over 2 or 3 strings also.
The perfect solution will be a controller switch between these two options.
But this can only work, if we get more programmable dimensions in gigastudio, the maximum is 16 stereo dimensions.

At the moment.

We are already using 25 dimensions. The solution was to divide the keyboard into two ranges: 4 octaves for up intervalls, 4 octaves for down intervalls.

In the moment there are 2 workarounds possible:

you can apply a filter to the modwheel to reduce the timbre differences.
I fear, you can't test it with the demoversion of the legatotool. If I remember right, all controllers are bypassed.
Or you can layer a normal sustainpatch to your legatoline (with less volume). We offer a special prepared sustainpatch, where the attacks are smoothed. This patch matches very well with the performance legati.

At last I want to mention, that this problems does not appear with woodwind and brass instruments, and are less problematic with violins, violas, and basses.
In my opinion, celli are most sensitive (I played cello for 12 years) because each string corresponds more or less with a register:
C-string = Bass
G-String = Tenor
D-String = Alto
A-String = Soprano

A doublebass has only bass and tenor register,
viola alto and soprano,
violin soprano.

I you have any further questions, or my descriptions are not clear enough you are welcome to ask.

best wishes
Herb

Hi Herb!

Thank you very much for the detailled explanation. It makes sense, and I am looking forward to try the different approaches you talked about.. As you said, I didn't notice anything like that with the legato trombone, and now I know why.

Best regards,
Martin

I must say, that I love reading Herbs responses [:)]

They are never agressive or defensive, but detailed and to the point. There's no plays on words or anything to trick you into thinking something else. Just pure explenation.

Even I get to learn things reading your posts.

Thx!

At some point you'll need a HUGE vacation!

thanks King,

I like the idea of Herb having a HUGE vacation very much. [[;)]]

sabine

Herb,

You talk of "Dimensions". I know this is a Giga term - how does this translate to the EXS24? Do we get the same (or more) functionality?

Learning as I go......

Regards - Colin

I'll try to explain it, Colin.

If you load an instrument which has only one velocity, you have a "one dimension" instrument. If you load an instrument which includes 2 velocity layers, you have an "2 dimension" instrument.
In this case you play the same key on the keyboard, and depending how hard you play you here the piano or the forte sample, for example.

Now you have the possibilty - the EXS MKII offers this option - to controll different samples not only with velocity, you can controll them also with keyswitches or other controllers.

A keyswitch means, that some keys of your keyboard a dedicated to switch between different playing techniques for example. This keyswitches are normally placed out of the instruments tonal range.
Violin for example:
the lowest note of the violins is g3 (a4 = 440 Hz)
So you can use the keys between c1 and f#3 for "dimension switches".
If you press c1 you activate the staccato playings.
c#1 short detaches
d1 long detaches
d#1 sustains

If you always play the same key, maybe c4, and step through the different keyswitches, you will here different playing techniques on the same key (c4)

This instrument is mapped for example with 2 velocities, so you have
p and f stacatos
p and f short detaches and so on.
That means this instrument consists of 8 dimensions.
Again: same key and 8 different samples can be triggered.

You also have the option to dedicate the modwheel for "dimension switching"

An example out of our dynamic samples:

Modwheel down: triggering a crescendo sample
Modwheel up: triggering a diminuendo sample

We also combined different controllers:

keyswitch c1: tone lenght 1 sec.
keyswitch c#1: tone length 1,5 sec.
keyswitch d1: tone length 2 sec.
keyswitch d#1: tone length 3 sec.

modwheel down: crescendo
modwheel up: diminuendo

again an 8 dimension instrument:
you select with the keyswitches the tone length,
and choose with the modwheel between cres. and dim.

In our performance legati, you don't have to choose anything.
You just play on the keyboard.
The Perfromance tool checks which intervall your are playing on the keyboard.
For example minor second, the performance tool selects automatically keyswitch one (c1), you play a major second, keyswitch two (c#1), and so on.

Its a little bit complex to describe, but its really easy to use.
Just normal keyboard playing.


hope this helps
Herb

By the way, I'm not a native english speaker.
What exactly means vacation??? [*-)]

hehee, I'm sure you would like that Sabine, you all need one [;)]

@Another User said:

By the way, I'm not a native english speaker.
What exactly means vacation???

hehee, no wonder you work so hard!!! [:)]

Hi Herb,

That's perfectly clear now. I really appreciate your lengthy explanation.
Thanks to the VSL demo CD, I already discovered my EXS24 MkII has keyswitching!

Oh yes, by the way, a "vacation" is something that all other people seem to get but not oneself. I won't describe it in more detail - you're probably too busy...... [:D]

Regards & thanks
Colin