@David Govett said:

Another way to consider mixing that I like to use.

....

Something to think about anyway.

Dave

Very nice summary Dave, exactly the same approach as my new setup. I return the Adats from my Giga PCs into Logic 5.5, where I can easily apply S1, RVerb, some EQ on the audio input signals, so I can do some initial "better than Midi-" panning here, while I work in the Midi Dept.

Not yet having VSL, I have made this setup up especially for handling and merging dry & wet libraries, like Dan's solo brass vs SAM's horns. You can first route the dry instruments through for instance CakeWalk's SoundStage or Waves RVerb with Early Reflections only, to make the dry & wet sounds similar. You can easily run a number of S1's and/or SoundStage instances within the input mixer.

Regards,

Peter

PS: I hope that non-VSL posts are not a problem when they address the general sequencing/recording processes that can also apply to using VSL... [:)]

You're welcome Peter.

@David Govett said:

Another way to consider mixing that I like to use.

This of course assumes that you might want to put all your stuff in individual hard disk tracks and mix them in a hard disk environment like nuendo or your sequencer or whatever....
Dave

http://www.silverspike.com/PlugIns/TapeIt/tapeit.html

regards

bc

Hi all,

I am using Logic Platinum with Giga and VSL. I just set panning in Logic and save it to my auto load template. Then as I'm composing I tweek it to taste. Is this an inferior way of achieving a good simulation? It seems to work and it is very simple, but perhaps I'm missing something.

Scott

Scott,

Since I was also a music teacher for about 30 years, I do permit myself to write something I used to tell to my students when they where asking if it was OK to do things in a certain way. My answer was”Do it as you like, as long at it does sound as you want it to sound”, and do not listen too much to people how are thinking they know how things should be done, because, as Aristotle’s said before me ¨The only think I know for sure is that I do not know much”. Of course this does not mean to take notice and learn from others, but there has to be a balance of self confidence and critic. All this to express the meaning that if your system of panning sounds good, just try the other ones, and only if they sound better, to you, change. [[;)]]

Iwan

As right as Iwan is from a principal point of view, there may be _really_ a intrinsic problem with panning on stereo tracks of Logic (and similar platforms):

I may be wrong, but AFAIK, the panning on stereo-tracks is just a _levelling_ of the two tracks. IOW, the louder the left side gets, the lower in volume the right side will be. This is not the same effect that you would achiece by panning the left side to full left individually, and turning the right side to a center-position, for example: In this second case, the stereo-width would be smaller, of course, but the acoustical content of the right side is still as audible.

This is why I tend to use the S1 as pan-pot, so to speak, because I can most easily maintain a chosen stereo-width while still being able to change the actual position of the signal in the stereo-field. You could also use two mono audio-objects within Logic and go the "analogue" way i described above (... "analogue" because that's the way i work on a real console, opposed to a DAW).

HTH,

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Interesting, but isn´t Waves S1 a bit too CPU-intensive to apply it to every instrument, in addition to a reverb?


Javier.

PS- pssst Iwan. That was Socrates [:D]

@Dietz said:

As right as Iwan is from a principal point of view, there may be _really_ a intrinsic problem with panning on stereo tracks of Logic (and similar platforms):
]

Dietz,
Of course I do agree with you, I record the MIDI without panning and when mixing, I put an S1 on every single audio track. I do not like to pan in GigaStudio at all.
But I think it is good to find the good things by hearing and not only by reading.....or by ¨Mr SO and So said, it has to be done like this" [[[;)]]]
This is not anything meant to be personal [[[;)]]]
Iwan

@Another User said:

PS- pssst Iwan. That was Socrates [:D]

Sorry about this, must have been late at nigth and it is allready a few years since I am out of school [:D]

Iwan

No offense taken, Iwan, I stick to the old saying: "If it sounds right, it is right!" (... what a pity that I didn't invent this ;-] ...)

/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

@Dietz said:

No offense taken, Iwan, I stick to the old saying: "If it sounds right, it is right!" (... what a pity that I didn't invent this ;-] ...)
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library

Thanks Dietz!

I just like to add that you are a professional with much knowledge and many years of experience in hearing and in adapting too many different situations in the audio domain. Personally I did learn much with reading your posts. I do try out every thing you suggest and some things did really work very well for me. But even with this I am not able to achieve the professional results you do. What I want to express, is that information is a very high value but it should not fool anybody about our abilities.
I had very big success with my saxophone sound, which a lot of famous conductors considered as unique –and get me quite a few gigs -. [[;)]]
If I explain someone about my embouchure he will probably not be able to get the same results

But you know all this [:O]ops:

Iwan

Scott, instead off panning with the standard Logic Pan, try using the DSP station in Giga. Use it to create the stereo width you'd want with the VSL sections/instruments, It tends to let you create a more controlled sound, but also "direct" sounds bit more.

@KingIdiot said:

Scott, instead off panning with the standard Logic Pan, try using the DSP station in Giga. Use it to create the stereo width you'd want with the VSL sections/instruments, It tends to let you create a more controlled sound, but also "direct" sounds bit more.

King,
Is this what you mean by "clapsing down" ( I am not sure about the words....)? Is this the same as reducing the field in S1? I did try the system the Garritan GigaString templates provides, but I can obtain better results with panning only on audio level with the S1. But I will try some more.... [:O]ops:

Iwan

King,
I thought that that was in essence what I was doing. The pan setting I'm talking about in logic is the midi message pan for each track asigned to each instrument in Giga. the stereo left and right are then monitored from giga through logic on a stereo audio track. My question is, when I tell giga through midi pan messages to pan sounds, is that the same as changing the pan directly in giga's dsp station? I'm new to giga and just assumed this is what would happen.

Thanks
Scott

Iwan,

Yup thats what I call "collapsing the stereo field". I tend to like S1 a little better just because it works visually and I can get quicker results.


Scott,

Midi panning in logic will only affect standard MIDI Pan, which is based on power/volume of each channel. What happens is if you pan from center to left, the right channel volume is reduced, meaning you'll lose some of the characteristics of section samples especially.

With the DSP Station, you are given control of each channel in the stereo signal, thus you can pan both the left AND Right signal towrads the left. This way you keep the right channels characteristics, but jsut output it from more of the left of the mix.

This is how panning works even outside of giga in most cases.

King,

Thanks for the explanation. Its all starting to make a little more sense now.
I'll definitly give that a try.
Scott

King,

I tried your suggestion and went back to a piece I had finished a few weeks ago. I set up all my panning through giga's DSP section and remixed the piece that way. You're right, it made a world of difference. Thanks again,

Scott

Cool,

Its a bit more work, but usually worth it. [:)]

Again tho, like Iwan said, use your ears. Definitely dont stick to one panning set up all the time, some cues benefit from wider responses, some not.

Like bruce said, sometimes you want it wider in louder sections, but thinner in softer ones. I usually just use another ssample to "color" up my sound at Forte dynamics, to stretch it around the room.

King,

thanks for the hint .. I really appreciated it.
Wish DSP would work for every single Port [:)]
(or am I missed something again ...)

nope you didnt, I wish that too markus [:)]

For right now you can use basic panning on top of the DSP station's width settings to make for more "focused" panning options, but obviously this isn't the best way, so you could just save mixing for a real mixing app, like Vegas (in which you'd need to use S1 or something)

Cakewalk's Fx3 Soundstage, is a nice option as well, but it takes some getting used to and learning. You can use stereo inputs and get width from them, but also place them in an actual room to get some acoustic response as well. Its quite nice in some cases. I've gotten some great results with it in the latest GOS updates.