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  4. Orchestrating with open space for dialog - (cleaned)

  • Orchestrating with open space for dialog - (cleaned)

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    Folks, to me this question is a very interesting and important one. A lot of responses on the original thread didn't deal with the actual question. Although some interesting subjects aside popped up I would rather like to try a concentrated thread to collect material on the subject. So I will simply quote all the posts which I think are relevant to the question and hope that the discussion continues constructively. If you think this question is irrelevant please vent in the other thread.

    [quote=mathis]I'm curious what your experiences are when it comes to orchestrating film music and some dialog is supposed to be heard over the music. I think it really lies in the orchestration if the music is fighting against the dialog or actually leaving so much space that the dialog is easily comprehensable AND the music can be mixed louder. With clever orchestration one can go quite loud with the music without masking the dialog.
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    @mathis said:

     Curious that nobody joins in. Is there nobody caring for this issue?

     I start thinking that it's essentially the same problem when writing an opera. There are operas in which you understand the singer and in others you don't. This is the result of proper orchestration. Still I don't find chapters about orchestration for opera in the classic books. Or did I not look close enough?
     
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    @stephankanyar said:

    Hey.

    I don´´t think that (in general) it is a question of proper orchestration if you understand the simgers or not. It´s more baout the thing, that some (if not to say many) singers are really weak in clear articulation.

    I did a lot of underscore work in the past and I didn´t thought too much about which istrument shold play which range. If you have to score a dialogue scene you see (and hear) what is happening and so you choose what music to write.

    I´m not a big fan of rules like: "Never use this and this instrument unisono under a dialogue". It always depends to what you are working on.

    Best regards,

     Stephan
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    @Peter Alexander said:

    You didn't look close enough, but to do that, you have to know where to look!

    There are only two books that deal with this subject. The first is the original Rimsky where in the book he covers orchestration for vocalists. Then Charles Koechlin does the same, but it's all in classical French.

    I think the question you posed is a good one, but not many here know how to answer it with the exception of Daryl (DG).

    If you wanted to look at an accessible opera score to try to answer this question, look at Bizet's Carmen with the complete score available from Dover.

    I'll check with some of my orchestrator friends to see if they know the answer. Most are really busy so it may take a while to get the answer.

    One way to spot check might be to get the Phantom Menace score and compare the orchestration to the movie dialog.

    Another consideration is getting Leonard Bernstein's score to West Side Story which omits the Violas altogether and compare from there.

    This is really a great question,Mathis. I'm sorry I don't have the wisdom to give you the right answer off the bat.

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    @mosso said:

    I remember reading an interview with John Williams where he spoke about underscoring dialogue - how he'd avoid using instruments that got in the way of the voice. He singled out the oboe as being particularly bad in this respect. Regards, Martin
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    @mosso said:

    I remember reading an interview with John Williams where he spoke about underscoring dialogue - how he'd avoid using instruments that got in the way of the voice. He singled out the oboe as being particularly bad in this respect. Regards, Martin
     

    Do you remember where you read this interview?

    Yes, I think I can agree with the oboe being problematic. At least I find myself prefering the English horn for this situation.

    I'm afraid I can't remember at the mo and I'm moving at the moment so I don't have access to my books. I'll get back to you when I've unpacked!

    Regards,

    Martin
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on