Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

199,035 users have contributed to 43,150 threads and 258,878 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 6 new thread(s), 13 new post(s) and 65 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. General & Hardware
  3. Best Workflow for Me

  • Best Workflow for Me

    C
    C

    Alright, here is my setup. I have a Kurzweil PC1X keyboard going through an M-Audio Midisport 2x2 USB to a MacBook Pro with these specs: 2.16 dua core processor, 2 GB of RAM, 160 GB harddrive. I am using Logic Pro 7 as my sequencer, and have the Special Edition Standard Library. I think that pretty much sums it up.

    I have been discovering how hard it is to mock-up an orchestra, even with as amazing a library as vienna is. So what I want is the most 'hands-free' setup I can have. I have tried playing each part into the computer, or using the notation software that is a part of Logic. I have had a very hard time with playing each part in, as it all has to be so perfect, and my playing is a little below perfect :) . I tried using the notation, but found it VERY tiring to work with, and VERY slow. So this is my question. What is the easiest way to do this? I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of quality for speed, as I can always tweak it later if I need to. Would investing in a notation software like Finale or Sibelious be a good idea? Would this speed up the process very much for me? Any advice on my workflow would be appreciated.

    Also, when working with strings divisi, I have seen some different opinions around here. If I had the extended library, I would just use the chamber strings, but I don't have that option. I have also heard that layering the orchestral strings with a solo string patch works well, but I am trying to keep this as simple and fast as possible. Would just using four seperate orchestral string patches work, or would it be too muddy. I thought that maybe if all the midi information was put in with notation, it might be sharp enough to make that approach work. Again, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Colin Thomson 
  • P
    P
    Well that's a nice keyboard you've got there. It depends on what you mean by playing a little below perfect. I can't believe Sibelius or Finale would speed up your workflow - that's not really what those programs are intended for I would suggest. Have you watched the Steinbauer/Kardeis videos on this very site? These may give you an idea about some things - maybe not - I don't know. That's the way I've always done it personally.
  • C
    C

     No, I don't think I have seen those videos. Where are they?

    Colin Thomson
  • P
    P
    Special Edition videos. http://vsl.co.at/en/211/442/371/237.htm
  • A
    A

    To input the strings, or to edit a string arrangement with visual comfort?

    ColinThomson ------> sez: Also, when working with strings divisi, I have seen some different opinions around here. If I had the extended library, I would just use the chamber strings...

    If you only have one violin patch in a divisi, it doesn't matter if you think of it as divisi or as unisono or tutti.
  • C
    C

    What is the easiest way to input midi data? Would getting something like Sibelious that is designed for notation speed up the process. Do people here consider it a valid mock-up if the instruments are not played in on a midi controller? I will probably end up getting a notation software at some point anyway since I want to have a printable professional score of my compositions, so would it be easiest (fastest) to use this process to input midi data? I am much more of a composer than a sound engineer, so I don't want to need to spend too much time on a mock-up. If and when I need something to be perfect, I will attempt to do so. For now I just want to see how it sounds.

    Also on the divisi, I am not sure you understood my question. I use so much legato patches and such, that, of course, I can not just play or write in the divisi is written on a score, because only one note will play. And, of course, even on a sustained articulation, it would all the sudden sound like double the amount of players playing. What is the easiest (fastest) workaround?

    Colin Thomson 
  • A
    A

    I always make an arrangement with MIDI tracks in the digital production software first, then import the MIDI data into the notation program. I never produce the partitura or the parts for individual musicians, that is the work of the copyist, a highly specialized profession of its own. I input the data via MIDI keyboard and matrix editor. I am not sure if keyboard input is faster then setting the notes with the mouse in the matrix editor. In my case, writing the score by hand is the fastes way, in notation that's where my job as composer ends and then leave the making of the session material to the copyists. With pop music, the  track rendered in the DAW from MIDI are the tracks used in mixing, and editing the data until it sounds as required is the job of the composer, a sound designer can't do that work.

    About divisi or double stops: As long you don't have string patches with half, third and fourth the players, it doesn't make sense to think about the fact that playing a divisi doubles the string chorus, or in other words, the doubling of players is there no matter if you think of it as divisi or double stops. Also, my string arrangement rather have three or four-voice texture in the violins alone, that triples or quadruples the perceived numbers of players. To my understanding, it doesn't make sense to think we are dealing with an real orchestra, and certain comparisons with the real thing can't be made.

    .
  • C
    C

    I guess I haven't spent enough time comparing this on my own. Ar you saying that it sounds natural to just play the four note parts with a stained patch? I don't have any problem with doing this, I just thought it sounded like double the players, a sound I am not going for.

    Colin Thomson 
  • A
    A

    Violin section: The slightly stronger chorus effect when playing two note with a violin patch who has 16 player is marginal and not really a disadvantage. If you hear a tiny raise in the level when playing more then one note, simply take the velocity back by a few numbers in the segments of divisi.

    But there is a huge advantage when you split the violin chorus (divisi), for example you can pan Vln II a tiny bit away from the Vln I, this produces a more interesting stereo image. The phanthom source positioning of the splitted violin section is important in order to make the stereo image more interesting in the horizontal distribution over the stereo base, as well the Vln II can be taken back a tiny little bit, this also helps to imply more depth.

    .
  • C
    C

    So, in order to pan violins 1 and 2 apart, I would use a seperate VI instance for each. But if Violins 1 are playing a divisi, should the sperate parts be panned apart, or together? If apart, should I just have four violin instances, and copy parts when all of violin 1 is playing together? If so, I assume they are panned slightly separately, even when playing in unison. Thanks for all the advice.

    Colin Thomson
  • A
    A
    last edited
    last edited

    @ColinThomson said:

    So, in order to pan violins 1 and 2 apart, I would use a seperate VI instance for each. But if Violins 1 are playing a divisi, should the sperate parts be panned apart, or together? If apart, should I just have four violin instances, and copy parts when all of violin 1 is playing together? If so, I assume they are panned slightly separately, even when playing in unison. Thanks for all the advice.

    I heard recordings where the violins 2 are on the opposite side of violins 1 in the stereo field.

    I do pan divisi apart, and the change from divisi back to double stop, tutti or unisono create no problem in the stereo field.

    .
  • A
    A

    The fabulous conductor Hermann Scherchen (1891-1966), recorded hundreds of orchestra works where he experienced with dozens of ideas where the instruments can be in the stereo field as well the distance of the instruments to the microphone.

    .