Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • V.I.P.? Don't you mean R.I.P.?

    Hello VSL,

    I'm a V.I.P. I own the full Pro Orchestral Package for Giga. I’m one of the ones who bought your products in the early days and helped put you on the map.

    I spent thousands of dollars on your products and told people what a great company you were because you were really paying attention to the customers.
    I swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

    If I were really a V.I.P, I would still be able to buy the products that support my substantial investment. Thanks to the discontinuation of things like Solo Strings, I now have no way to purchase a solo viola and bass that will work within my Giga setup. You seem to think that, as a V.I.P., I would rather buy the VI version (for much more money) and disrupt my workflow by having to use that tool in addition to my giga setup. Continuing to sell those now discontinued products was the decent thing to do, even if it had to be done through a third-party. Instead, you’ve left me and others high and dry, hoping we'll spend thousands of more dollars on your new libraries.

    If we were really V.I.P.s, you would have given Giga users the Performance Tool for Mac when they asked for it, instead of making them buy a Horizon product to get it.

    If we were really V.I.P.s, you would have made the pricing on side licenses a percentage of the current pricing as it dropped, not the original pricing.

    If we were really V.I.P.s, you would have given us a substantial discount on buying the VI Standard Library that has now essentially replaced our investment. Instead, you chose to allow us to buy only the Extended Library at a discount. What a deal: forced to buy either something I don’t necessarily need (the extended library) in order to get something that I already have (much of the standard library), or to buy again a substantial number of samples that I already purchased with the Pro Edition. It’s the sort of twisted marketing strategy that might have been written by Karl Rove had he been in the sample business.

    If this is the V.I.P. treatment, I’d hate to see how you treat your enemies.

    R.I.P. is now apparently a better label for us.

  • I find fault with this argument.

    1. The Horizon Series has been around for c. 2 years. IMO, you have had ample time to buy it. You can't get the horizon solo strings for the same reason you can't get Windows95.

    2. RE the pricing: "buy the VI version (for much more money)"

    -cost of Horizon Solo Strings: e325
    -cost of VI Solo Strings[standard]: e345

    3. RE the workflow: Having used both, I can vouch that the VI's effect on workflow is not disruption but incredible timesaving. No mucking about with perf or articualtion tools, it just does it. And then you can purge all the samples you don't need and move onto the next instrument.

    4. "What a deal: forced to buy either something I don’t necessarily need (the extended library) in order to get something that I already have (much of the standard library), or to buy again a substantial number of samples that I already purchased with the Pro Edition"

    Now I'm sorry, but you get a fantastic discount. You get the whole extended library for a ridiculous fraction of the price. Basically you get the cost of your existing package deducted form the full VI version. You buy the whole Cube, you get [I think] 40%-ish off. That's 4 grand. The full price of the old orchesral package was e3,990. And if you owned a good chunk of the horizon series too you can get the entire extened cube for e4,220 with a discount of 5 grand. If you and I bought the Cube on the same day, you could pay e110 more and get the entire extended library.

    Also, chances are that if you are the sort to have the complete orchestral package then you're going to need the extended content of these instruments.The standard content is there for beginners and amatuers like me. I really have no pressing need for glissandi on every string. But a VIP price for the complete Solo Strings is:

    790 - 415 = 375

    How anyone could complain about that is just beyond me.

    5. RE Side licences: That is unfortunate, but I know for a fact that if they had cheap side licences then none of my friends would stop pestering me for a copy of my solo strings. And why? Because they're damn good! The cost of producing a product like this must be just phenomonal, I don't imagine that they could risk that kind of piracy, or continue to endure the kind of piracy that plauges sample libraries.

    IMO, of course.

  • ariacat, unfortunately i don't get some of your points, especially:
    - of what use would be the exs performance tool for a gigastudio user?
    neither you can use it on a PC nor have any of the sequencers for PC a comparable option to use ther performance tool as plugin like in logic/exs.
    - the horizon solo strings have been out for years and offered to registered pro edition users for the small upgrade price of $ 145 - $ 160

    also the discussion about discounts on standard libraries has been long and tiring, where it should be clear an UPGRADE cannot be something to a product with less content, only the full (std+ext) library offers more than the pro edition which represents a logical path:
    Opus 1 (40.000 samples) or First Edition (160.000 samples) -> Pro Edition Complete Orchestral Package (380.000 samples) -> Vienna Instruments Symphonic Cube (800.000 samples)
    i'm sure you have noticed the Symphonic Cube's standard libraries contain only 200.000 samples and introducing the performance detection with the Vienna Instruments (Player) as such is a huge leap in development and usability.

    if you really need the solo viola and double bass please get in touch with sales@vsl.co.at - i'm sure we will find DVDs with the missing instruments somewhere on the planet.
    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • My main issue here is this: I see VI like an upgrade to the "operating system." Yes, there's a lot of new sample content, but there's also a lot of old sample content in the Standard Version, probably a lot of what's in my Pro Edition. The Performance Tool is a pain to work with compared to VI. It would have been nice to have a way to upgrade my sample content to the new, superior VI "operating system" without having to spend another $6K for content that I don't necessarily need. Is that too much to ask for? I'm not looking for handouts. I would gladly pay for a crossgrade to a comparable sample set that used the VI interface, but that was never an option, and it could have been. It was a choice VSL made.

    To say you can't get the Horizon solo strings for the same reason you can't get Windows95 is not true. Gigastudio is still out there and still working. Libraries written 10 years ago for Gigastudio are still available even though new ones have come out. VSL simply decided to take it off the market. Why? It was done, it worked. Do you stop selling old movies when new ones come out? There's zero-maintainence on existing sample libraries. The only reason to take working libraries off the market is to force people to buy something else. Sure, when Gigastudio is on version 5 and no longer reads the libraries you'll stop selling it, but that's not the case here.

    Enough said. I think VSL has been a great product, but it would be even better if there was a modest upgrade path that allowed users to take advantage of the improved operating system (VI) without having to shell out $6,000+ to get it.

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    well, the reason why you can't get it anymore is almost the same than with windows95 - VSL dicided to not press more DVDs [;)]

    @Another User said:

    There's zero-maintainence on existing sample libraries.
    that's a good one ... so you think we can close the gigastudio, exs and kontakt forum as well as retire the respective supporters?
    i am more under the impression that for newer versions of samplers new demands for new features would come up (VSL released actually art-files for GS3 and programs for kontakt 2) and i have already heard questions *will the performance tool become 64bit and 8 ports* to mention only one example.

    btw: so far it looks everything runs fine on windows VISTA 32 bit and the leopard beta, but i doubt seriously 64bit support can be added ... the software projects have been made with a version before the last and would require heavy porting if not a complete rewrite ...

    again: contact sales if you need something and can't get it elsewhere. VSL is highly responsible as far as it is within our possibilities.
    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • Samples in C.O.P: 385,586
    Samples in CUBE : 792,953

    Roughly double.

    Cost of C.O.P : e3990
    Cost of Cube:: e9200

    Just above double.

    Cost of Cube to you: e5410

    Roughly Half.

    The Cube has a fixed price or e9200.
    You've already paid: e3900
    And your discount is e-3,790 €

    Don't think of the 'standard' and 'extended' editions, think of it as half and whole. For a 110 extra euro you get twice as much as non VIP members. More, actually.

    The 'never pay for a sample twice' idea worked while comparing apples with apples, but to get the VI made VSL have to pay people to think of, develop and test it. I paid for it and was happy too. Still am.

    /saving for woodwinds

  • R.I.P. - what a smartass remark! [8-)] Why do you come on accusing the company like this? That is incredibly arrogant.

    What you are talking about is the development of software technology AND THAT NECESSARILY INVOLVES EARLIER PRODUCTS BECOMING OBSOLETE. Compared to other companies VSL is giving big discounts on products that use earlier samples, but the new software is so much better than Gigastudio using pro edition there is no comparison. It is a new product. Software is constantly developing and simply cannot be created in the manner you are assuming. And what you are saying is exactly like windows 95 - or 98. Neither are sold OR supported.

    Also - zero maintenance on existing sample libraries?

    Are you joking? I have huge amount of EOS X sample discs, Miroslav, etc. It is not a matter of maintenance - they flat-out don't work unless you 1) buy the new VST Miroslav with the exact same samples for $499.00 as opposed to the price I PAID several years ago of $3,500 or you do a halion/kontakt/Chicken systems conversion. It is constant maintenance to use old sample libraries. It is constant maintenance to use ANY SOFTWARE - or to develop it.