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  3. Vienna Instruments Libraries (legacy)
  4. Bosendorfer Soft
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    another thought: on some keyboards it might be mot easy to trigger the lowest velocity level .. try to increase the treshold value for the lowest velocity layer (IIRC to appr. 40)
    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • A
    A
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    @Another User said:

    If you want the Boesendorfer to sound softer, try to take out the higher frequencies with the filter setting.

    So, you take one of the finest pianos in the world, laboriously and meticulously set it up to perfection, record it to the highest possible standard in a purpose-built studio, and then you tell us to put a bit of hi-cut on it [:P] Hi-cut would simulate the celeste pedal that you get on cheap uprights, not the una corda sound of a grand. Una corda isn't anything like a hi-cut at all, it's a "sparser", harmonically less rich sound because of fewer strings being hit (except for the bass strings, which are hit off-centre). A comb filter might come closer, guess I'll have to do some experimentation before I embark on "La Cathédrale Engloutie".

    You'll be telling me next there's no sostenuto pedal implementation...
  • michiM
    VSL Team
    michiM
    angelus,
    david was trying to help and made some suggestions, i can't see any sence in your biting reply to his post. nobody ever said that hi-cut could replace una corda, so you totally missed the point.
    this is our first piano-product, which was designed to fit into our orchestral sample environment to realize piano concert arrangements. to integrate una corda samples simply means to double the content and the size. i don't like to talk about future products, but we have a continuous growing list of new ideas and wishes for our next releases. una corda is already on this list.
  • A
    A
    Many apologies if my reply was thought to be biting, I was intending to be gently humourous, hence the use of smilies.

    BTW, I disagree that UC would double the number of samples. For a start, you wouldn't need 7 velocity layers. Who would use UC and then play fortissimo? Secondly, it's unlikely that UC work would involve extensive note repetition so there's another place you could ecomomise on samples.
  • J
    J
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    @cm said:

    another thought: on some keyboards it might be mot easy to trigger the lowest velocity level .. try to increase the treshold value for the lowest velocity layer (IIRC to appr. 40)
    christian

    I did experience triggering problems when playing softly - vel10 in Logic, which tends to be the lowest number when I hit the key softly, would not trigger a sample. I'v never had that with other presets from VSL or other libraries.
    Any ideas?
  • A
    A
    Not being a Logic user myself, I can only speculate. However, what you describe would be entirely consistent with the way a real piano behaves, in that if you press the keys very gently then the hammers don't make contact with the strings and so no sound is produced.
  • J
    J
    Maybe I don't mean that gently!!
  • M
    M
    Just a comment...

    The VSL Piano is absolutely magnificent, and completely fulfills it's stated promise of being a piano designed to fit in with the library. the implimentation of sustain pedal recordings is excellent, and for it's intended purpose, it is second to none in the world. I also miss the soft pedal samples, however, I did not expect them and they are not necessary for the required purpose. You know, I'm sure they will add to that library as they do to all others, and now they have said they will. The recording of this piano as a solo instrument is really also quite amazing, engineering wise VSL have done it their way and it shows and it's a pristine library, and fun to use.

    Careless critisism is like swinging a knife around carelessly you might think not much energy is going into it but if you cut somebody with it they're going to be perhpas more incensed at the carelessness of the act. A considered critique is more appropriate. You know one thing I think is truly amazing about the borsendorfer is that they got repeated notes in there I don't think anyone else has ever done that before, and their approach to sustain pedal recordings is superb - beats even Ivory piano for realism which I think uses a dsp effect - not as good albeit excellent and I do hold thatl ibrary in high esteem myself. I think they're also the first to do that, and to integrate it so seemlessly and easily into the patch - you just play and use the sustain pedal as you like, it's pretty awesome.

    Miklos.
  • J
    J
    I agree; the VSL piano is a gorgeous thing. I look forward to the time when it gets expanded dynamically.
  • A
    A
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    @Another User said:

    Careless critisism is like swinging a knife around carelessly you might think not much energy is going into it but if you cut somebody with it they're going to be perhpas more incensed at the carelessness of the act. A considered critique is more appropriate.

    If you're referring to my remarks about the inappropriateness of using hi-cut on the beautifully recorded Boesendorfer samples then I believe I did provide a considered critique. If you weren't referring to me, then you too are being careless in your criticism.
  • M
    M
    You know what I meant. Your first post was a criticism on the piano in a public forum where potential customers of VSL read and judge. Therefore your comments should have been better posed, or at least placed as a question IMO.

    I believe the hi cut on the piano is not mentioned with the intention of being a soft pedal "work-around"! but more way to tonally colour the piano - like eq! Pretty straight forward - actually it sounds very good to darken the sound a bit and I've used it for that purpose and sounds good

    Your point about the soft pedal samples on the whole is valid in itself, I'm glad VSL responded and let us know that that is something they are working on as it's very cool! I just don't like the manner in which that information was extracted from them by being forced to defend the library that really, doesn't need defending. Sorry.

    Miklos.
  • P
    P
    hi everybody at vsl-forums...


    just read the whole discussion about the boesendorfer and uc.
    i definetly have to add, that this instrument is simply great.. with or without uc... ok, would be nice to have, but to get the whole perfection, simply by the "real one" [[;)]] but for software, this one is an enlighment!!! deep respect (as much as the solo strings i also own)

    thats all have a good time with your instruments (as much as i have)
    markus
  • M
    M
    I agree. It is a brilliant bench mark sample library of a brilliant bench-mark piano.

    Miklos.
  • C
    C
    Yes, it's indisputably a very good sampled piano, but clearly no sampled piano is perfect for all purposes and styles. I find it a little unyielding for reflective, improvisational solo work and ideally I would have preferred more than seven dynamics - several older piano libraries use as many as twelve.

    Reproducing the effect of the sustain pedal has long been difficult for sound companies. The usual approach is to record complete sets of pedal-off and pedal-on samples and switch over to the latter when the sustain pedal is pressed. I believe this is what VSL have done with the Bosendorfer, it's effective but not revolutionary. I agree that the repetition samples are a first.
  • michiM
    VSL Team
    michiM
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    @Conquer said:

    ...The usual approach is to record complete sets of pedal-off and pedal-on samples and switch over to the latter when the sustain pedal is pressed. I believe this is what VSL have done with the Bosendorfer...


    that's a wrong guess. details of the pedalsound recordings and how it is used could be seen in this video.
  • C
    C
    Thanks Michi. I don't have time to download the video, could you kindly give us a few details on how the sustain pedal samples are handled?
  • H
    H
    There are pedal up and down samples (nothing spectacular),
    but there also pedal - resonance samples recorded for each key.
    Here you here all resonating strings except the strings of the original performed key, which are damped initally after the note on (the resonances of the other strings keep on ringing)
    These resonance samples are faded in, if you perform any pedal up samples, hold the keys an press pedal down. These resonance samples will be added.

    All Matrix files with "Xfade" in their filename are prepared mappings using these resonance samples.
    If you load the Matrix file in any default VI Preset you only have to assign your sustain pedal controller to the "Cell-XF" slider.
    If you load a Bosendorfer Preset-File this controller is already setup.

    More information for this setup issues you can also find in the dedicated Bosendorfer manual.

    best
    Herb
  • C
    C
    That's a smart technique - thanks for the explanation!