I made some orchestral stabs, actually I programmed some final chords of several symphonies, this in two versions, with sustained samples and with staccato samples.

After the chord was set with quantized notes, I modified the position of the note, for example the trumpet played a few ticks earlier then the lower brass winds. No note was exactly on the same start position, as well no note had the exactly same lenght. All notes where f or ff layers.

The same with the string section, violins a little earlier, then the violas, then the celli, and last contrabass. And the same with the woodwinds, the higher instrumens like piccolo are triggered a few ticks earlier.

The MIDI note off's where modified with lenght, that the off created a fall or raise sort of fast sweep at cutoff. Then the reverb was programed for each section seperate, and with different room sizes until the wanted power was achieved.

To make in rilievo (embossing) dynamics, make some instruments slightly louder than others and to stand out, I changed the instruments level with velocity and the MIDI dynamics compressor.

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Hi Angelo - many thanks for your response.

I'll try and follow your approach and reprogram the stabs I need in this piece. I can see that modifying the note-on and offs may help produce some additional emphasis.

Can I perhaps just ask if you are using any specific articulations for the short stabs in your example (such as detache or marcato on the strings), or just straight staccato articualtions? Also, when an orchestra plays a stab like this, I often hear a slight fall in pitch (like a very fast slide down), particularly in the strings. Is there a technical name for this or an articulation which replicates it?

Thanks again for your help.

Jules

@Another User said:

Also, when an orchestra plays a stab like this, I often hear a slight fall in pitch (like a very fast slide down), particularly in the strings. Is there a technical name for this or an articulation which replicates it?

This "slight fall in pitch (like a very fast slide downeffect" you mention, I fake by arranging the note off's like a stair ---> the highest notes, i.e. the piccolo cuts off first, the lowest instrument like contrabass last. This produces a similar slide down effect as in the concert hall. I can very well be that the contrabass sounds 200 millisecond or more longer then the violins. But the most power you get by fusing some appropriate reverbration with the dry sound.

Also, when I use stabs for contemporary rap or hiphop, I print several slightly different stabs, to add a bit of variation to the otherwise without much ground clearance but a lot of spiritual road adherence R&B songs

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Thanks again Angelo. I'll try some of those ideas, although I can't help feeling I may have missed a certain combination of voicings and articulations which would provide a more realistic stab, without the need for artificial layers. I'm sure my lack of orchestrating experience means I'm perhaps missing some standard techniques.

@Angelo Clematide said:

[Also, when I use stabs for contemporary rap or hiphop, I print several slightly different stabs, to add a bit of variation to the otherwise without much ground clearance but a lot of spiritual road adherence R&B songs.

[:D] I guess that's one way of putting it!! I'm thinking maybe "spiritual road adherence" might be an interpretation of "street cred"!?

Thanks again for all your help.

Jules

@Another User said:

[:D] I guess that's one way of putting it!! I'm thinking maybe "spiritual road adherence" might be an interpretation of "street cred"!?

Maybe, but rather not, eventually an extension... you have to know, that I live far from urban civilization, and the artists come to my place when something gets produced, which is shortly before the road cuts off at the end of the valley. Just have a look where the artists and ceo's stay for the night when they work with me: http://www.engstlenalp.ch/

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One thing characteristic of some stabs are grace notes in the string section with 2-, 3-, and 4-note stops. This plays into the technique mentioned by Angelo of adjusting midi note positions where some note-on locations are aligned too closely.

Among the many things that may distinguish a 'pop' stab from a 'classical' stab is the way they may be voiced. Pop/R&B trumpets tend to play in a higher tessatura than classical trumpet players. Often, one or two trumpets are above the staff more as a rule than the exception.

There may also be saxophones included, which can add a different color to the woodwinds.

Some pop stabs intentionally blend in synth orchestral sounds with real sounds.

Stravinsky's Firebird was a common one to sample. You might want to have a look at that score.

Use Performace Repitition Harsh with strings and you will have very intense stabs.

Many many thanks for the replies.

dpcon - I checked out the 'harsh' articulations you mention just now, and they do indeed add more bite to the string element of the stabs, which is helping a lot. Thank you.

synthetic - I will try and find that Stravinsky score and see how he's orchestrated the stabs. Thank you.

JWL - thanks for all the pointers. I will see if I can program the string section grace notes you mention to try and introduce more movement into the stab. I think that's definitely an element of the sound I'm looking for. I'm not specifically looking for a pop sound - more a 'big-screen' Hollywood climax, which sounds intrinsically classical to my ear, although I acknowledge it may include more than just conventional orchestral elements. That said, your suggestions re. trumpets and saxes are definitely worth checking out.

Can I finally ask if there are specific percussion sounds which might feature in a stab, beyond perhaps timpani and crash? I found something called a 'thunderboard' (?) yesterday, whcih seems to have a nice mid range 'thwack', but perhaps there are other more typical instruments one might use.

Thanks again to all. I feel the ultimate stab draws ever closer ..... [:D]

Jules

Some other thoughts:

1. Flutes or picc with 2-3 preceding grace notes (diatonic or chormatic)

2. Using release switch patches

3. Using fp patches in combo with sfz or sffz (in the brass, especially)

4. Adding a quick harp rolled chord

5. suspended cymbal and/or tam-tam (short hit) in combo with a short piatti hit

6. grand cassa hit

7. Some hits are not as short as they seem. Try mixing long and short staccatos with a few short detaché or short marcato patches. Winds would probably use shorter samples, strings longer samples, brass somewhere in the middle (as an experiment). These are slight differences which should be used only to avoid the spot on mechanical attack of all instruments concurrently.

Strings are often "late" [:D]

8. If notes are already entered and are close to being quantized, play them in manually (swap out the ones that are there) and do not quantize. Slow the tempo down temporarily for this (to about 80% or so) and restore the proper sequence tempo once all the notes are entered. In this manner, you become each individual player in a way, and this adds to the realism.

Playing a single chord **in general** takes less time than manually guess-editing the midi placement.

Have fun!

All very good suggestions with the above (JWL) very effective devices.

A common technique with strings is an equal split between staccato and pizzicato which gives you both and edge (stac) and roundness (pizz) which tends to give more impact.

Sorry not to respond sooner and thank everyone for all the input - I had to drop onto a different project and won't be able to go back to my film trailer stab-fest until later in the week.

Looking forward to trying out all the suggestions that have been posted, and thank you to all for your help.

Jules

Trailerman,

If you are talking about the type of trailer-stabs that are currently being used by big budget USA style trailers for horror films/ action etc.........

Then be aware that there are very heavy extreme sound-effects (http://soundeffects.com/soundestool.html) added to the standard orchestral stabs........

Most trailer guys rely heavily on 2 or 3 " trailer sfx"soundlibraries that are commercially available to supplement the orchesteral stabs they compose.

SvK

Thanks Svonkampen, I'm sure you're right about the use of FX to add impact to pure orchestral stabs. I've heard orchestras deliver some pretty impressive stabs on their own though. I think I need to study a couple of scores as Synthetic suggested. I'm back on this project this week, and need to get it wrapped up soon, so I'll try and make some more progress.

Thanks for your help.

Jules