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  4. For anyone own the old VSL and new VI - sound engine?

  • For anyone own the old VSL and new VI - sound engine?

    P
    P
    Hi all! This is my first post here... [:O]ops:

    I've been watching the growth from the VSL Pro edition the new VI. I've been dreaming of owning the VSL Pro edition when I was a student, couldn't afford that price that time. I used to perform gigs around and earn some money, at the mean time I do some composition and arrangement as well with my Motif 7 with Cubase along with some other VSTi's.

    Now, I'm really giving up the sound of my keyboard. Hearing lots of wonderful VSL samples makes me want to commit into spending for the library. At the mean time, I'm looking at the old Cube Pro, VI SE or VI Strings I+II, most likely will be going for VI Strings I+II, but there's one thing I noticed based on mp3 available from VSL.

    I find that the sound character of VSL has changed since the launch of new VI. In comparison, the old VSL sounds more natural and has that kind of vibe of real orchestra, especially the strings; while VI seems to have more depth at first impression, it seems to lack of the vibe and "air" of the old VSL.

    So I read a lot on VSL site, knowing that the new VI plugin has re-designed sound engine, which I think different from the old VSL which is EXS or GIGA based. I'm hesitate to buy the new VI, just for the sake of this. I just love the old VSL sound more than the new one, but for what I can see is the new VI has way more articulation and it's in 24bit which offer more depth.

    Before I hand over my cash, just wondering anyone of you who coming from the old VSL and bought the new VI can tell me of what you think about the new sound? I don't have much money to spend on orchestra software so I just wish to get the best out of what I can get at the moment. The priority goes to string sound first (as I rarely need others at the moment), so I might be looking at VI Strings I+II (as far as I can see there's no marcato for VI SE which I'll be needing it for pop/rock) first and expand my library in the future.

    Thanks in advanced for reading my long post and hopefully you guys can give me some of your precious opinions! [:O]ops:
  • C
    C
    Hi Pigcat! Good name. I graduated from the Pro Edition to the Cube without any qualms about the sound. The samples are the same recordings you enjoyed in Pro Edition, although they have been re-programmed and some patches therefore don't behave in quite the same way.

    Given that the samples haven't been re-recorded, the 'new sound' you're hearing could be the result of the change from 16-bit to 24-bit. Audiophiles (and those who pay a lot of heed to technical specs) think this can make a big difference, but personally I find it rather subtle and certainly not a problem - the Pro Edition sounds great and so does the Cube.

    The Cube does require a few changes of working method, but having the legato software embedded in the Vienna Instrument is an enormous advantage. The large number of new instruments and articulations are also a great step forward, and there are plenty of other technical improvements.

    One side comment about VSL's suitability for pop/rock recordings: you sometimes have to dig deep to find the kind of raucous deliveries that some producers are looking for. The Vienna sound is refined and highly musical, and though there are uninhibited performances lurking within the hundreds of Gigabytes of samples, I think it's fair to say the library is characterised more by subtlety, beauty of sound and huge range of perfomance styles than it is by rock attitude. But I guess you could say the same of any orchestral library!
  • P
    P
    Thank you Conquer!

    That certainly helped to decide which one to choose! I'm glad that the sound hasn't been changed a lot from the older version, perhaps it was an imagination or something, maybe it's due different user/different approach to using the sound I guess.

    I should have make it more clear about using the strings for pop music, I mainly do popish or ballad music, or even laydown some nice strings line for RnB. But I was certainly aftering more aggresive string sound more suitable for more aggresive music - pop rock, rock, progressive etc etc. I've listened to many other demo mp3, I think VSL still sounds best to me, especially articulations that're unique to VSL - not to mention the dry samples which most likely the best for all rounded usage among others.

    Sure I would like to hear more opinions, anymore opinions are welcome!
  • J
    J
    I think Conquer gave a very accurate and admirable report for you.

    In a nutshell-- the new Cube interface is easier to use.

    I had the original Standard and Pro Editions, which ran in Logic's EXS24. It sounded good, but one instance of ESX24 was needed for each articulation you wanted to use. It was not uncommon to have 12 instances of the EXS24 just for a violin part. Performance Tools and other controls dedicated to make VSL work were all in separate windows-- and these Performance Tools were also sold separately.

    With the new Cube, everything you need is in its own well-designed interface console, and each instance can hold dozens upon dozens of articulations. I was really happy not to have to look at all of EXS24's controls that were never used-- it just made for a lot of visual clutter. The new interface is nice because every control that is seen is an important part of getting the most from the VSL samples.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
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    @pigcat said:

    [...] I should have make it more clear about using the strings for pop music, I mainly do popish or ballad music, or even laydown some nice strings line for RnB. But I was certainly aftering more aggresive string sound more suitable for more aggresive music - pop rock, rock, progressive etc etc. [...] Sure I would like to hear more opinions, anymore opinions are welcome!

    Welcome Pigcat,

    Thanks for your nice words.

    Looking for "aggressive" sound, it is not only a good idea to look after the most powerful articulations, but also to keep an eye at the endless possibilities of processing during mixdown.

    The fact that our samples are so extremely clean and pure makes the perfect basic material for all kinds of modification, like compression, distortion (subtle or intense), EQ-ing or extreme filtering.

    I work a lot in the genres you mentioned in your message above, and while I can't offer one "final" solution, I can assure you that there is lots of unexplored acoustic territory just around the corner [;)]

    All the best,
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • A
    A
    hi, here in short form:

    the samples are great, the vsl pro and the vi samples!

    if you are search strings for popmusic i recommend the appassionata strings. just take a look to the demos and the articulationlist. maybe this should be the right thing for you.

    by the way, it is also cheaper than the Strings 1+2 collection [[;)]]
  • D
    D
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    @Dietz said:

    I can assure you that there is lots of unexplored acoustic territory just around the corner [;)]


    You know, the mir mention of such possibilities is very intriguing.
  • J
    J
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    @Dietz said:

    I can assure you that there is lots of unexplored acoustic territory just around the corner [;)]


    You know, the mir mention of such possibilities is very intriguing.

    LOL-- the 'mir' mention. Clever, dpcon.

    Hey-- in German, the word 'mir' means "to me" or "for me"

    I like that! [[;)]]
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
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    @pigcat said:

    Hi all! This is my first post here... [:O]ops:

    ...I find that the sound character of VSL has changed since the launch of new VI. In comparison, the old VSL sounds more natural and has that kind of vibe of real orchestra, especially the strings; while VI seems to have more depth at first impression, it seems to lack of the vibe and "air" of the old VSL.
    ....

    Welcome Pigcat!
    As Dietz already mentioned the VSL-Samples are clean, pure and dry recorded. So with most of the demos you are also listening to different reverbs and other room effects. If you find that the character of the samples has changed then I believe that most of the current demos contain other effects and reverbs than those with the "ProEdition". Sometimes it seems to me too that the "old demos" sound more natural, more crispy, more crunchy... Anyway I believe it would be as well if we include this reverb-matter in our comparisons.

    Beside the Strings I & II > have an eye on the Chamber Strings as well. OK you don't have a large cinema-string-sound. But a very agile play is possible with them and they have a clear character with a nice vibrato if you want.
    _____________________________________________________________________
    Compare the characters Solo- Chamber- Orchestra-Strings:
    I played once this piece with all of the three libraries. But keep in mind that you only listen to some short note samples and that the melody is not very well done (natural).
    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL/BK_The_Solo_Chamber_Orchestra_VI_06.mp3
    By the way. The reverb is Altiverb, IR = Teldex Studio, 7m Stereo

    Here I used the Chamberstrings
    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/VSL_New_VI_U/BK_Hard_to_say_VI_06.mp3

    And a last remark: The Appassionatas sounds really cinema-like but the don't have a lot of Double-Bass-articulations! This is maybe important to know.

    All the best

    Beat Kaufmann
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • P
    P
    Wow many thanks to everyone's opinions!

    @Dietz - It's great to know that you worked on heavy music too! I understand that pure and clean strings sound will suits these types of music well, as well as further process like heavy EQ'ing. In comparison, I don't think those out of the box with reverbs built in (say, EWQL stuffs) will suits me well although they sounds very well on film scoring stuffs too!

    @Kaufmann for your mp3s! By listening to both of the songs, I'd say I really love the strings in the 2nd songs, that's the sound I'm aftering! Just wondering did you use EQ on them? I'll be even happier if you're telling you're not using EQ at all, cause it touched my soul so much! I also noticed the scale run at 3:29, and I noticed there's no scale running samples for chamber, so it's manually played or "borrowed" from the larger strings?

    By the way, I pretty confidence it's live recorded sax right? It'll blow me miles away if you're telling me it's fake! I would also like to know what's the reverb used on this song? It's fantastic!


    I'll definitely have a listen to the new Appassionatas though I'm most likely leaning towards smaller section for pop music, it seems the Chamber will suits me even better than Strings I+II! Sounds lush, and it's a cheaper solution too!
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB
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    @pigcat said:

    Wow many thanks to everyone's opinions!
    ...@Kaufmann for your mp3s! By listening to both of the songs, I'd say I really love the strings in the 2nd songs, that's the sound I'm aftering! Just wondering did you use EQ on them? I'll be even happier if you're telling you're not using EQ at all, cause it touched my soul so much! I also noticed the scale run at 3:29, and I noticed there's no scale running samples for chamber, so it's manually played or "borrowed" from the larger strings?

    Hello Pigcat
    EQ
    All the samples are recorded and saved as good as they could be. So I take care not to use EQ for make worse the vienna sound with so-called corrections . But I use EQs for cutting low or high frequencies or for filtering bad frequencies (EQ as Notch-Filter).
    Runs
    No problem to generate runs with the perf-trill articulation. "In case of emergency" you also can use the common legato articulation for that and it still sounds OK.
    Recently I made some samples for a good friend of mine. Of course they are made for different woodwinds but you can imagine that it also works with strings > That's VSL
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=11216&iframe=true
    Scroll down a bit and then have fun with the runs!

    Beat Kaufmann
    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • D
    D
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    @Dietz said:

    I can assure you that there is lots of unexplored acoustic territory just around the corner [;)]


    You know, the mir mention of such possibilities is very intriguing.

    LOL-- the 'mir' mention. Clever, dpcon.

    Hey-- in German, the word 'mir' means "to me" or "for me"

    I like that! [[[;)]]]

    Yes JWL, it's all for mir and you and a handful of Quad 8's to run it all no doubt. [[[;)]]]
  • D
    D
    Mr Beat Kaufmann !
    I listened to the 2nd song [Hard to say...] and I am wondering why my VSL chamber strings does not sound the same ...it's exactly the strings I am looking for [Paul mauriat ring any bell?] So please answer me this question:
    Which particular presets that you used on that song? and which controllers/technique used for that strings line???
    I really love your work and your website,
    Best regards
    Sonny