@DaveTubaKing said:

... and the lowest possible note on the Bb contrabass tuba is the C-1 below that.

Holy cow, that's deep!

That C-1 is at 8,17 Hz, and is one octave below the lowest C on the Bösendorfer Imperial, or as large as a 64' organ pipe. I think there is only one organ on this planet who has a resonator like that.

Normally church organ pipes have the lowest tone at 32', for example a C0 at around 16 Hz pipe.

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Encounters II played by the virtuosi Roger Bobo is available on this disk http://www.amazon.com/Bobissimo-Best-Roger-Bobo-Barat/dp/B000003J2J

Actually I got it wrong a second time the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2. Being a Bb instrument the open fundamental is Bb-1 the four standard valves lower the pitch a major seventh so that the ultimate fundamental with all four valves depressed is B-2.

That same piece Encounters II goes up to Bb 4 so a range of one tone short of five octaves. The highest notated note in the solo repertoire I have seen is the F5 in Ole Schmidt's tuba concerto which means a virtuosi must have a range of five octaves and a fourth.

@DaveTubaKing said:

... the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2

Still very deep!

There is no other instrument in the orchestra who plays a B-2 at 15.43 Hz. Back in the sixties we learned not to write pedal note for the Kontrabass Tuba's, and I never thought about it any further till now, and that today we have players who actually can play this notes.

Does Roger Bobo plays this lowest B-2 pedal somewhere on the work "Encounters II For Unaccompained Tuba" or in another composition on this compact disc. And how compact is the sound of this B-2 pedal?

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@DaveTubaKing said:

... the lowest note on a Bb contrabass tuba is B-2

Still very deep!

There is no other instrument in the orchestra who plays a B-2 at 15.43 Hz. Back in the sixties we learned not to write pedal note for the Kontrabass Tuba's, and I never thought about it any further till now, and that today we have players who actually can play this notes.

Does Roger Bobo plays this lowest B-2 pedal somewhere on the work "Encounters II For Unaccompained Tuba" or in another composition on this compact disc. And how compact is the sound of this B-2 pedal?

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Its the C-1 in Encounters II. (only a semitone above the B-2) i.e an octave below the Bosendorfer. It's played piano. It would not be possible to get above about mf on that note.

As well as the Bobo CD, for the most magnificently huge wall of tuba sound in the entire universe ever then this CD of six virtuosi tubas is mind boggling and very entertaining.

http://www.amazon.com/Tuba-Six-Musical-Romp/dp/B000002SKB

Plenty of the very lowest notes.

"Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......" - David Carter


What is that supposed to mean?

@William said:

"Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......" - David Carter


What is that supposed to mean?

having an unnecessary strop I'm afraid. As much as I enjoy your constructive contributions to the discussions here your destructive ones too often overshadow them.

Dave, and of course all the others...

why does the range of what we disscuss here, not corespond with the range chart on the vsl site:

Range of the Contrabass tuba: A0 – B3:
http://www.vsl.co.at/en-us/70/3139/3153/3156/5507.vsl

On the vsl chart the lowest pedal is an Ab0. But the lowest pedal on a Kontrabasstuba is a Bb-1, which is a seventh lower then what the vsl range chart is showing.


Also found the following info, who exactly says what you already stated. Also the 8 Hertz organ pipe in Sidney is mentioned, and the information on this site seems to be how it really is:
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

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@Angelo Clematide said:

Dave, and of course all the others...

why does the range of what we disscuss here, not corespond with the range chart on the vsl site:

Range of the Contrabass tuba: A0 – B3:
http://www.vsl.co.at/en-us/70/3139/3153/3156/5507.vsl

On the vsl chart the lowest pedal is an Ab0. But the lowest pedal on a Kontrabasstuba is a Bb-1, which is a seventh lower then what the vsl range chart is showing.


Also found the following info, who exactly says what you already stated. Also the 8 Hertz organ pipe in Sidney is mentioned, and the information on this site seems to be how it really is:
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

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Well many instruments have extremes of range that would be outside any general guidance as to range. Certainly with the tuba the more extreme the range the more difficult it is for players to play and the less musical the quality of the sound. Only a small handfull of tuba virtuosis can achieve the extreme range.

Take the trumpet. There is a recent release by Malcolm McNab http://www.malcolmmcnab.com/exquisite.html where he plays the entire Tchaik violin concerto at pitch the highest notes are around C7 and in the cadenza he goes down to C1. The lower two to three octaves are "faked" and there musical worth is questionable but you won't find any range guide iwth the trumpet having a six octave range.

The lowest sensible note on a Bb trumpet with three valves is E3 but players can achieve the pedal register Bb2 to E2 and fake lower notes but there musical value is questionable.

The highest notes on an Eb tuba is usually around Bb4 but some players can go up to F5 and if you sing falsetto into the tuba you can fake higher notes but again these xtremes are of questionable value.

There is no exactly precise answer when it comes to range. Not only does it depend on the ability of the performer but it also, particularly in the case of the tuba, depends what instrument he's playing. tuba in F, Eb, CC, BBb.

So any range guide has to compromise with averages. In my view the average range for a proffesional tuba player of consistent musical value would be C1 to G4.

It maybe that these possible extremes of register and the ability to fake extreme lower notes is peculiar to brass.

As I always say, if you want to explore the extremes of register you have to know the individual player your writing for.

The Malcolm McNab CD is an absolute must - astonishing.

Just a little note in between these FASCINATING posts which have not the slightest bit of pedantry about them, not at all...

"Angelo, forgive me I'm not doing a William but......" - David Carter

"What is that supposed to mean?" - William

"having an unnecessary strop I'm afraid. As much as I enjoy your constructive contributions to the discussions here your destructive ones too often overshadow them." - David Carter

______________________

O.K. Thanks for that clarification Mr. Big Bore.

However, you are using the term in error. What you are referring to is known as "doing an Angelo." "Doing a William" is posting useful information, or discussing interesting topics, in a polite and friendly manner. "Doing an Angelo" is shrieking like a wounded maniac who has just escaped from an institute for the criminally insane, or listing to the point of obsession huge conglomerations of worthless information as part of a catatonic, repetitive and meaningless stereotyped behavior which is characteristic of certain forms of schizophrenic breakdown.

I say all this just to be clear on our terminology.

Q.E.D.

Just joking... [6]

and I thought this "Not Doing A William" is a jig Dave did not compose for contrabass tuba in a pear schnaps tonality

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Pear Schnapps? Yes. An essential pre-posting libation.

Hmmm....Having quickly browsed through this thread, and read some of the info presented i offer the following.....

Dave Cater hit the nail on the head when he spoke of extended ranges beyond the attempt to explain limits in sound engineering terms. I did a bit of work some years ago with a concert band, and with their enthusiasm for playing the classics, the conductor/Arranger/Orchestrator was obsessed with exploring pedal tones in large bore brass to create subtone effects. It was an interesting project and the players were keen to match previously 'unattainable' notes with some degree of musicality. Given the mechanics of producing sound with brass, those with experience in this field will know just how fine a line one crosses when transiting between a definable tone, and, well, farting out notes. So according to Angelo's chart, these attempts would be outside of the presented parameters.
And yet they took place, so not impossible, and importantly, not so easily boxed within a framework that attempts to quantify the HUMAN production of sound by reducing it to a definable digital explanation.


Human beings play instruments, with the infinite variables that are the result.

Dave also mentioned Tuba virtuoss, and this would be true of most instruments, not just brass. I've done some weird stuff with woodwinds outside of any definable table of contents for 'How to play an instrument', and i was no virtuosi.

It's easy to present a chart of reference, so to speak, but a lot harder to apply it to ACTUAL instrument playing.
That's the human bit that is the difference between contemputous dismissal by explanation of one of the mysteries of musical life with the attempted reduction of human input to digital 'sectors', and the wonder of sound produced for the sake of playing, with all the imperfections and variablity that no machine or chart can emulate.
That's why I (and i speak only for myself) prefer recorded samples to synthesised tonal production. At least they're human.

Just two roubles worth.

Alex.

p.s. You can keep your Pear Schnapps. I'll take the Cognac.

I've just run out of white Villeroy & Boch tiles for my bathroom. Anyone got some?

Alex - I hate Russians. AFAIC they stink up the planet. Nice to see you again btw.

Angelo - stop sulking you jerk.

@PaulR said:

I've just run out of white Villeroy & Boch tiles for my bathroom. Anyone got some?

Alex - I hate Russians. AFAIC they stink up the planet. Nice to see you again btw.

Angelo - stop sulking you jerk.

Yes Sir, I'm here Sir!
Tiles are ready Sir!
Anything else Sir?
Ah, yes Sir, I think you forgot something, Sir!

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@PaulR said:

I've just run out of white Villeroy & Boch tiles for my bathroom. Anyone got some?

Alex - I hate Russians. AFAIC they stink up the planet. Nice to see you again btw.

Angelo - stop sulking you jerk.

You've run out of tiles? Aaawww, that's a real shame. (No. Really.) Why don't you finish the job with magnolia tiles from Viceroy and Crapper. No one will know..

Not that cruise around sniffing Russians, but I will say they don't ALL smell, and quite a few of the ladies are rather pleasant to glance at from time to time!

And it's good to see you again as well, dear fellow. I see the renovating continues to rejuvenate your sense of humour!


Regards,

Alex.

Dave,
was in town, and brought a concentrated medication of tuba, the three compact disc set with the orchestra audition collection from Edition Peters:

http://www.schott-international.com/shop/php/Proxy.php?purl=/ze_e/Sheet_Music/1000279/1661192/show,214342.html

https://www.edition-peters.de/front_content.php?idcat=77&idart=91&product_id=EP8666&

http://www.edition-peters.com/php/stock_info.php?section=music&pno=MP8666

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Hm, was the chart removed? I cannot see it anymore.

Hey Angelo! Danke Dir ;) Greets, Stephan