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  4. Keyswitches and MIDI event chasing

  • Keyswitches and MIDI event chasing

    P
    P
    Hi All,

    I'm curious to know people's strategies for getting their sequences to "chase" keyswitched articulations. Here's the issue:

    If you set your sequencer to chase CCs, when you start in the middle of your sequence, your sequencer will look back to see what the last value of every CC is and make that the current value (e.g., if the last cc7 [volume] value recorded in the track was 64, but the current state of the VI has cc7 = 23, it will jump to 64 when you hit start at your current location).

    But the same is not true for notes - let's say you've established a keywsitched articulation, e.g., staccato, by hitting C1 momentarily at the start of your sequence (at measure 1, beat 1). Let's also say you've been experimenting with other articulations later in the sequence without recording them (e.g., legato), and the VI's current state is legato. Let's then say that your sequence actually starts at measure 3, beat 1, and let's say you now start playing your sequencer at that same beat. Since the sequencer isn't "looking back" to get the keyswitch value that was at measure 1, beat 1 (since it's triggered by a note that is not currently playing), the VI will play with the wrong articulation.

    Now, you can increase the durations of your keyswitch notes so that one is always "playing" (and thus will get chased), but that's a pain, particularly if your keyswitch notes are in the same track as your "instrument" notes.

    Any strategies? Jerome, if you're reading this - is this one of the things taken care of by your "cc to note value" transformer?

    Peter
  • H
    H
    An alternative is to use instead of keyswitches any continous controller for articulation/patch switching, and programm changes for matrix switches.
    So if your sequenzer is set to "chase events", your sequenze will follow the right articulations all the time.

    best
    Herb
  • W
    W
    I've noticed this also and will try what Herb suggested, though I like keyswitches because they are easy to remember, and so I sometimes just throw in a few extra ones at stopping/starting places.
  • P
    P
    Thanks, Herb.

    So if you assign the horizontal dimension for articulation switching to a cc, then if you had a keyboard Controller with buttons that could be programmed to send specific values for that "articulation-switchng cc", you could assign different buttons to trigger different articulations, correct? That way,

    1) You could switch articulations on the fly
    2) The changes would be discreet (as opposed to trying to move a fader, say, through a fraction of its range and landing in the right place, while you're playing 16th notes at high speed), and
    3) The changes would be chase-able.

    Is my reasoning sound?

    Peter
  • D
    D
    I don't understand the problem using keyswitches. Just set them to be "legato" with a value of around -10 ticks (to give a small gap) and then providing that your sequencer is set to chase notes there will never be a problem wherever you start. Controllers are much more problematic and in order to get Nuendo to chase those I have to have a kind of tremor in the hand when entering them so that the value is continuously changing. what a load of rubbish. [:D]

    DG
  • P
    P
    DP doesn't have an "auto legato" function, which apparently Nuendo does - to achieve this I'd have to manually lengthen all the keyswitch durations. Of course this is doable - but I'm looking for a way to change articulations on the fly that will result in chase-able changes. So I'd still love for someone to confirm my reasoning. I actually think it would be pretty cool if it works. (Gotta get a Controller with some assignable buttons, though).
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    @plurye said:

    DP doesn't have an "auto legato" function, which apparently Nuendo does - to achieve this I'd have to manually lengthen all the keyswitch durations. Of course this is doable - but I'm looking for a way to change articulations on the fly that will result in chase-able changes. So I'd still love for someone to confirm my reasoning. I actually think it would be pretty cool if it works. (Gotta get a Controller with some assignable buttons, though).

    No legato feature? But that has been in Cubase since VST days (and maybe even before). You should complain.

    DG
  • P
    P
    I should complain MORE about DP?? [:)]

    I gotta take a break once in a while...

    Can you tell me how the legato feature works?
  • D
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    @plurye said:

    I should complain MORE about DP?? [:)]

    I gotta take a break once in a while...

    Can you tell me how the legato feature works?

    You select the keyswitch notes, click legato, set the overlap to something like -10 ticks and press OK. Then all the keyswitches are present throughout the score, so that you can start anywhere and the correct sounds will play.

    DG
  • P
    P
    Ah. Yes, DP has that feature ("extend durations to next note"). And that is, in fact, how I handle it. Again, though, I'm looking for a way to switch articulations on the fly, which is a bit different.

    PL
  • D
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    @plurye said:

    I should complain MORE about DP?? [:)]

    I gotta take a break once in a while...

    Can you tell me how the legato feature works?

    You select the keyswitch notes, click legato, set the overlap to something like -10 ticks and press OK. Then all the keyswitches are present throughout the score, so that you can start anywhere and the correct sounds will play.

    DG
    OK, someone has just told me that the legato feature used not to be in DP, but now is. I would suggest finding this out for certain,as it could solve a huge number of problems for you.

    DG
  • D
    D
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    Right this is what I've been told:

    @Another User said:

    You can do this in DP a couple of ways. easiest is to use "Region>Change Duration>Move Releases". This will extend the cutoffs of the selected notes of your first chord up to the attacks of the notes of your second chord. It works with chords or single notes...wahtever you select. Also, there's "Region>Change Duration>Extend Releases" where you can fine tune the extensions a bit. Finally, I sometimes take string pads, quantize their attacks and releases to the duration of the chords, then "Region>Change Duration>Scale" to about 105%, which actually extends the releases over the attacks of the next chord. This gives some very nice legato transistions. Check out the "Change Durations" section in your manual and you'll get a bunch of good ideas.


    DG
  • P
    P
    Thanks, DG. As I said earlier, I've done those exact duration tricks for years (I go WAAAY back with DP, and those tricks have been around since 2.0). Regardless, thanks for having gone to the effort of getting your friend to explain.

    Again, that's an "after-the-fact" method of fixing articulation changes - while it's a perfectly valid approach (and in fact it's what I already do) I'm interested in maximizing efficiency, and am exploring the best way to create chaseable articulation changes WHILE recording the part in question.

    So I'd still love someone to confirm my reasoning from my earlier email.

    PL
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    @DG said:

    Finally, I sometimes take string pads, quantize their attacks and releases to the duration of the chords, then "Region>Change Duration>Scale" to about 105%, which actually extends the releases over the attacks of the next chord. This gives some very nice legato transistions.


    Does this work even if it's the same note overlapping it's next attack? I didn't think that worked but rather the next attack doesn't sound if the prior note was still playing.

    Also, how can I get the matrixes to change with patch change? I've tried creating a patch change in DP and right clicking the matrix box in VI but when I play or scroll with DP the matrix doesn't change.

    Thanks
  • C
    C
    Is there an "auto legato" function in Logic Pro 7? If so, how can I find it?
  • P
    P
    Re patch change in DP, I'm able to use this to change matrices. One oddity: The patch number is offset by one. So where VI looks for patch #s 101 - 112, you have to use one patch number higher in DP (i.e., enter patch 102 in the seq track in order to get the first matrix, which should be select by patch 101).

    One more issue - even with the "Set Event Chasing" correctly set in DP, I find that it often won't chase the patch change. Not sure why.

    PL
  • D
    D
    Hi PL,

    some programs start counting patch/bank numbers at #0, others at #1, while sending the same MIDI info. Some even allow you to switch between the two. I've no idea why this is so - maybe some companies abhor a vacuum? [[;)]]

    Cheers,
    David
    VSL manuals
  • N
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    Colin - yes. I forget whether it's in other editors, but in the Matrix editor you highlight the notes and select Functions->Note->Force Legato in the local window menu. That will make every note-off butt up against the following note-on. There are two options, one of which extends the last note selected to the end of the MIDI region.

    You can also shorten notes that overlap with a command in the same area.
  • C
    C
    Thanks. I'll try that out.
  • E
    E
    I would like to associate Vienna Symphonic Library and FINALE. Is that possible?