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  4. Windows Vista

  • Windows Vista

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    Just read a bit about the Vista's audio architecture - seems to be good news
    for the sample and sequencer community.

    First of all a new Wave port driver, WaveRT, specifically designed for direct
    buffer processing and low latency. This could make it possible to
    lower the buffer size in VSL VI - thus reduce the memory
    consumption drastically, which in turn leads to more samples loaded per
    Gb. [:)])
    For the technical stuff:
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa474703.aspx">http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa474703.aspx

    Next the Multimedia Class Scheduler Service (MMCSS) - which allows programs to set a higher priority in the scheduler for its threads.
    This will finally let our audio drivers and sequencer processes run uninterupted. [:)]
    Tech stuff:
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms684247.aspx

    Now combined with 64-bit and it's vast memory address space - Vista looks
    like a huge step forward.
    Lets hope there's not to many undisclosed drawbacks.....
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    http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html



    Alex.
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    yeah - that's what I meant by drawbacks.
    The encryption and content protection is a major drawback in Vista.
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    Bjorne,

    It's a bit early to draw any conclusions, but i've read quite a few comments from beta users who feel Vista is slower than previous versions. Now, objectively, these are just personal viewpoints, and there may well be an equal number of users who've had a good time with beta Vista, and may well report in a positive sense.

    I can't help but think though, that given the ever tightening grip that two OS's have on the global computer market, and the gradual development of tighter and tighter DRM controls in both software and hardware, that this may well compromise our ability to build powerful systems than run fast, and clean, without the kludge that seems to pervade many aspects of both Windows and Mac.

    Interesting that there seems to be a growing interesting in Linux variations. UbuntuStudio looks interesting, and Linux sampler may well provide a possible alternative. Personally i think Linux is on the verge of going more 'mainstream' as a matter of neccessity (and as a result of evergrowing frustration by niche users like us), and we may well see more generic derivations that work across a greater range of hardware. If this happens, i wonder how many developers and hardware manufacturers will be willing to build linux specific plugins and libraries. (I will say here that RME in particular have been traditionally strong supporters of linux, offering linux drivers for all their products, and encouraging user/programmers to contribute.)

    One thing is for sure, until there is a foundation linux os (or other os) that users can simple install without manual compiling, then windows and mac will continue to influence the way we use computers as tools for music.

    Perhaps it's the revolutionary part of my character, but i'd like to see another powerful competitor in the marketplace, particularly one that is open source, and not subject to the immmense pressure from lobby groups in media. Then the majors would have to find the balance between DRM script, and powerful usability.

    Alex.
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    @Sapkiller said:

    yeah - that's what I meant by drawbacks.
    The encryption and content protection is a major drawback in Vista.
    I think may be a major drawback is probably more accurate. Nobody yet knows what the reality will be, and at the moment I can't see it how it would affect me, when I eventually upgrade to Vista. The only snag I can see at the moment, is that if one is unable to turn off some of the "security" features, this could cause problems with certain Network orientated programs.

    DG
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    Alex, I've also heard that Vista can be slower than XP, but I also have heard that as it "learns" from your workflow, it should speed up over time. However, if the machine is powerful enough, then it probably won't matter. It is generally accepted that OSX is slower than XP, but the few people that I know who are using it on Intel Mac find that it is so much faster than on the PPC variety, that there is no discernable difference when compared with XP on the same machine.

    DG
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    @DG said:

    Alex, I've also heard that Vista can be slower than XP, but I also have heard that as it "learns" from your workflow, it should speed up over time. However, if the machine is powerful enough, then it probably won't matter. It is generally accepted that OSX is slower than XP, but the few people that I know who are using it on Intel Mac find that it is so much faster than on the PPC variety, that there is no discernable difference when compared with XP on the same machine.

    DG


    Daryl, you'd be far wiser than i am about this. And if Vista learns and gets faster, then it may well be a real possibility. I'm a strong supporter of software developers protecting their work, and being rewarded for it, but i think the balance has shifted toward the corporations at the expense of niche users like us.
    Would i rather windows didn't have IE and the intrusion that goes with that integrated into the program? Definitely, yes.
    Would i like to see both Microsoft and Apple offer a 'barebones' version OS with the crap stripped out, and built for speed and power. Definitely, Yes.

    I remember using a little program with Win98, called windows lite, that did just this, and the difference in stability and useability was frankly, astonishing. Cubase actually worked! (Of course times have changed since then, lol.)

    Vista may well be good, and i hope so for all those chaps who work hard to achieve something in our field. But, and call me cynical if you wish, i don't think our wishes and specific pc requirements figure in the MS/Apple corporate strategy at all, and if development excluded our little band of users, i don't think they'd be that worried.

    When i comare what i do now, on my little laptop running OSX, with the time i ran Win98lite, there is no real difference, whatever company propaganda may say, so i'd agree with your assessment, and comparison. And recently, i used a friend's PC with xp sp2 on it, and i got frustrated with the endless stream of notifications, the sudden halts as the 'borg' that is MS assimilated the few keystrokes i'd just put in, and the hoop jumping resquired to keep it going.

    Oh, for an os that does what it says on the tin without the 300 page booklet exhtolling the virtues of this or that, with reality offering a less rosy experience.

    I caution my remarks with an acknowledgment of bias on my part, that is, a desire to own a basic os without the crap that runs lean, fast and powerful. I don't need games or IE or Mail, or any of that graphic rubbish that tells you when you're smiling, or when to feed the elephant.

    Call me old fashioned!

    Regards,

    Alex.
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    Alex - Don't get me wrong - I'm not a great fan of windows!!
    I just saw the tech's on Vista - and the WaveRT and MMCSS is a major improvement in my opinion.

    But that said - if there where Sonar and VSL Linux versions (together with
    all the other stuff I use) - I'd propably leave windows at once and never look back.
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    Alex, I wouldn't say that I'm more knowledgeable about anything! However, there are a lot of scare stories about Vista floating around, and in many cases there is actually no difference from XP (or even OSX). I certainly agree that the people who may suffer are most likely to be the ones who like to change the hardware regularly, although I believe that MS has made a few concessions in this regard, compared with their original intentions. However, I have no desire to re-build my PC once it is running to my satisfaction, so this is unlikely to affect me.

    I also like the idea of a slimmed down OS, and still miss using my trusty Acorn, where the OS was in ROM, but as bloating the OS seems to have become the norm these days, I will settle for just being able to use the PC without having to think about the OS.

    I guess that I'm old fashioned as well. [:D]

    DG
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    @Sapkiller said:

    Alex - Don't get me wrong - I'm not a great fan of windows!!
    I just saw the tech's on Vista - and the WaveRT and MMCSS is a major improvement in my opinion.

    But that said - if there where Sonar and VSL Linux versions (together with
    all the other stuff I use) - I'd propably leave windows at once and never look back.


    Lol.

    Bjorne, i didn't think you were a fan of windows, so don't worry, your respectability is intact!

    I agree with your second point though, not only for Sonar or VSL, but other programs too, and i wouldn't look back, anymore than you would.
    I wonder if there are developers out there who would like a more mainstream version of linux, so they can write better code without the restrictions of MS or Apple.
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    @DG said:

    Alex, I wouldn't say that I'm more knowledgeable about anything! However, there are a lot of scare stories about Vista floating around, and in many cases there is actually no difference from XP (or even OSX). I certainly agree that the people who may suffer are most likely to be the ones who like to change the hardware regularly, although I believe that MS has made a few concessions in this regard, compared with their original intentions. However, I have no desire to re-build my PC once it is running to my satisfaction, so this is unlikely to affect me.

    I also like the idea of a slimmed down OS, and still miss using my trusty Acorn, where the OS was in ROM, but as bloating the OS seems to have become the norm these days, I will settle for just being able to use the PC without having to think about the OS.

    I guess that I'm old fashioned as well. [:D]

    DG


    Daryl, you're not the only one that misses older kit. I still regret getting rid of the fairlight!
    Yes, a slimmed down os seems to be an almost ideal scenario for us, with resource focused on the basics, instead of consumer crap.
    Can't see it happening...... [[:|]]

    Regards,

    Alex.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    @Another User said:

    but I also have heard that as it "learns" from your workflow
    this is an exaggerated wording for a simple feature ... move often used files into the fastest region of your harddisk ... same as OS X does on system drives which are formatted HFS+ journaled

    i personally would be a little bit cautious regarding waveRT - they understand *streaming audio* as receiving (continuous) audio streams from a server-source and not in the sense of sample-streaming, i doubt it will be more performant than ASIO

    christian
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @cm said:



    i personally would be a little bit cautious regarding waveRT - they understand *streaming audio* as receiving (continuous) audio streams from a server-source and not in the sense of sample-streaming, i doubt it will be more performant than ASIO

    christian


    With my limited computer intellect Christian, i understand this as waveRT developing and working based on continual stream, rather than the stop start mechanism of multiple sample streaming.

    Is this correct?

    Alex.
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    Is this the new direction of computing?

    http://www.konin.ru/index.php?table=10012&id=0011%E2%8A%82=0&template=template_1">http://www.konin.ru/index.php?table=10012&id=0011%E2%8A%82=0&template=template_1

    [H]
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
    LOL - seems someone was pretty bored ...

    waveRT - that's exactly how i understood the papers
    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    Wow Alex, that is fantastic. I am going to stare at this for the rest of today. This is what we should really be doing with computers.
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    [[:|]] [[:D]] great machinery - Alex [[:D]]
    Do you know what it say's in Russian?

    Cm, Alex - you maybe right about the streaming which mostly will benefit recorded tracks - but I think (hope? [[;)]] ) there will be a performance gain in the sample area as well.
    If I understand it correctly, the WaveRT operates without changing to kernel mode at each I/O request - as opposed to current portdrivers.

    But then again, I'm not sure how the ASIO is operating - might do just as good.
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    @Sapkiller said:

    [[[:|]]] [[:D]] great machinery - Alex [[:D]]
    Do you know what it say's in Russian?



    lol, i kjnew someone was going to ask me.

    Roughly translated, it says:

    'At last! Someone managed to present the thinking process of women in simple and clear form.'

    But then this is from a nation that goes by the adage:

    'Thinking decorates a woman...."

    And don't shoot me you ladies out there, i'm only the translator.. [[[:|]]]


    Regards,

    Alex.
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    [[[[:D]]]] [[[[:D]]]] [[[[:D]]]] [[[[:D]]]]