playing or programming?

[Kai]

hello,
there have been posts on this issue so far, but unfortunately no complete answer.
i would really like to know whether it is possible to play this library, or if one needs to program it - as all others before.
i think this is really an important point, since creating music is a creative act, which at least for me is not possible if i have to string together musical fragments after picking them out of a large data base.
unfortunately, i had to spend years in order to bring my old library (advanced orchestra) at least in the vincinity of being able to "play" it - and don´t want to do this again.
i read through the sample contents list and noticed with plaesure that there are many different versions in dynamics, lenght, articulations, vibrato ... very nice.
but if every of these versions comes with a different program or patch, more variations make the usability even worse [:(].
in order to use an instrument conveniantly there has to be just ONE program for each "instrument" (as e.g. the violin section). all variations should be accessed by controllers (dynamics via velocity, vibrato via modwheel, one controller for the length of short notes, another for the articulation (bowing), 2 controllers to specify the inital dynamic level and the time for (de)crescendi, ...) and the software should crossfade continuosly between the different sampled versions (it looks like the new exs version could in principle do this).
so is this (at least to some extend) the case for the vsl?
if yes my search has finally come to an end [:)] !
regards
kai

[Paul]

Hi Kai!

Everyone has that wish, to overcome this limitation: The keyboard is a keyboard, not a violin, not a flute....

The structure of the Vienna Symphonic Library is consistent throughout all the instruments. And we agree, that free "playing" is essential for creativity.

We offer layout-instruments to cover the most important playing techniques of an instrument, so you can translate your musical idea as fast as possible into music, and if you want "fine-tuning", simply do it afterwards.

This is a large library, and it´s just the beginning.

Of course this is also a request for sampling-platforms, as the datasize is permanently growing...
Anyway, we´re ready to program complex instruments as soon as the technical progress allows it (our average instrument consists of as many samples as whole average libraries!).

One step in this direction is our Performance Tools. You get a lot of convenience by online-data-management!

All the best, Paul

[Kai]

hi paul,
i fully agree with your statement, that a keyboard (and especially a sampler) has big limitations compared to "natural instruments" and that it will never reach their great expressiveness. however, i am absolutely convinced that even with the current sampler capabilities there can be done much more than has been done so far!
i already programed some sounds that included continuous transitions in dynamics, bowing, crescendo (rate) and vibrato - and the result was astonishingly good even with only one pair of samples in each case (from the advanced orchestra upgrade 97 library) - no audible transitions.
as far as i know, this was only possible on a k2500 so far due to its outstanding modulation capabilities (sample selection by arbitray controllers, controller transformation via funs, ...). however, now also within the new exs mk ii, this - and even much more - should be possible!
the point is, that one can use logics environment with its nearly unlimited possiblities to transform the physical controllers arbitrarily into secondary controllers that are used to modulate the sounds within in the exs. this for instance already enables one to specify an arbitrary! (volume) mixing ratio of the different sampled dynamic versions for each! of the 128 velocity values and therefore have an absolutely contiuous transition - which should be nearly the real thing with 5 sampled versions.
furthermore, with the new sample select modulation source, one can do the same to continuously introduce vibrato, bowing strength or perform (de-)crescendi (from any dynamics level to any other and at any rate! - just by continuously fading through the predefined sample mixing table in the same way as done for velocity - in my case this sounds realistic even with only two sampled dynamic versions and does not need any additional samples, that cover the range of possible time variations only very crude).
in principle all other playing techniques (chords, tremolo, pizzicato, trills, grace notes ...) could be added the same way in order to be accessed by physical contollers (faders ,switches, ...). unfortunately , so far the sample select feature in the exs already allocates the respective voices even if the sounds are not played for all controllers other than velocity or key-number. this is an uneccessary restriction (not there e.g. in the k2500) which could and hopefully will be overcome in a future version of the exs.
but even already now it should be possible to access all playing techniques via controllers! namely, in the environment it is possible to transform controllers into program change messages which could just call up the respective "special playing technique"-program if for instance a certain footswitch is pressed and the "standard"-program again if it is released. i think on a fast machine these program changes could be fast enough and without audible artefacts.
i don´t know whether you thought about these possibilities or even already included some of them in the "layout instruments", since there is no exs version yet.
however, considering all your statements and the philosophy of the whole project i think sooner or later you will use the available possibilities and provide us with realistic instruments and not just a large database of samples.
i´m very confident and i´m looking forward for what will come from vienna.
all the best
kai

[Nigel Watson]

Kai, I'm also excited by EXS24mkII- but it's really frustrating that e-magic haven't even provided us with a proper manual update explaining how to practically use all the new possibilites - there is a .pdf file- so far only in German!- which I can read but it isn't very well explained, I feel. [*-)]

I would love to know how to program a modulation Xfade in EXS. My old Roland samplers are cool, you can program crossfades by keyboard range and velocity range.

Logic is a great programme and I'm sure if Herb/VSL co-operate closely with them we will see some startling developments for the musician! [:D]

Nigel

[William]

Kai,

That is very interesting what you are suggesting with the EXS, and sounds similar to what I did (though probably much better) with the Miraslav library in combination with the Siedlaczek. I completely reprogrammed it to a continuously controllable, individually selected instrumental library that was related more to the old-fashioned orchestra than to computerized sampling, etc. In other words, having 1st violins only ONE instrument, with all the dynamic, articulation and note-length variations accessed by controllers and/or velocity, rather than having to go to a new instrument to get each one of these.

I believe this essential so that a composer can concentrate upon music rather than computer programming.

With the VSL, one will have to use a software sampler or combination of hardware samplers to do the same thing with an immensely larger number of samples. But this goal should still be attempted.