Ritenuto, rubato, tempi changes between VI & Logic!!!

[fab]

Hi VIsers!!!

I'd like to make some expressive ritenuto, rubato or accelerando movements with some strings parts...
I know I can do some tempi changes in Logic but the issue is that these strings part belong to a modern groove song (i.e drums,bass, guitars, key...)!
So if I do tempi changes the whole song will be concerned & I want only strings to be...

Has someone ever done this kinda manipulation before?

Thanx for every advices!

Take care!


Fabien.

[Conquer]

Hi Fabien, your question is interesting but a little unclear. Could you please be more specific about what you want the strings to do in this song? Are they going to be heard playing along with the backing, or are there passages where they play unaccompanied?

The string parts can obviously be programmed to play rubato against a fixed tempo (although it's hard to play in that style over a click), but if you want an accelerando I'd expect the track to speed up too, otherwise the strings will go out of time with the song!

[fab]

Hi Conquer!

Indeed the strings are gonna play accompanied with the backing (of course with not a lotta instruments i.e durin a bridge or intro/outro...)!
Let's imagine a bridge where 5 strings parts have to be played: in order to save time I could play my different parts on the click then simply create a tempo change, by that way I have consistent rubato parts then I could retouch some notes positions...
But I have create a tempo change on the backing & sometime it's worth doin that if you wanna go back in studio...imagine the producer decide then to add some new tracks...
That's a lil bit confused maybe but difficult to explain I make up my mind!...

Thanx.


Fabien.

[Conquer]

Hi Fabien, thanks for the example. I think there are two options:

1. Play the parts in listening to the click as normal, then edit the song tempo afterwards. For slight tempo changes you can alter the tempo gradually in small steps - say 1 or 2 bpm - on every beat over a few bars, but a big rallentando at the end of a song would require bigger steps to be made over a shorter period.

2. Keep the song tempo constant till the section where you want the tempo to change, then mute the click and just play the rubato (or whatever) part in as you feel it. Once you've got a main guide part feeling right, you can match your other parts to it.

The second approach can work well at the end of a song, but it's not great if you want to bring back the initial tempo after the change - to make that happen in exactly the right place you sometimes have to put in a short bar of some odd length like 5/16, which is a bit of a brain-twister.

The advantage of 1 is that you can edit the tempo changes later. In either case, using tempo changes tends to introduce problems with loops, runs and phrases.

I'd go for 1 and hope for the best!

[Sandpiper]

...and don't forget the use of "tempo options" where you can have different tempo maps for the same song. This allows you to experiment without messing up what you might consider to be a good version.

[marnix]

Hi Fab,

I once had the same problem in a pop song and this is what worked for me:

I simply bounced the whole song to audio, opened a new arrangement, importing the playback to an audio track, and smpte-locked the region.

Then I worked on my string arrangement, creating tempo curves and alterations until it felt right to me and bounced the single MIDI tracks to audio again, which I then imported back into the initial song.

The disadvantage of this is of course that you have to do the whole thing over again if you want to edit anything in the string arrangement, but it still proved to be the safest and quickest way for me.

Hope that helps!

Cheers, Marnix

[Nick Batzdorf]

If I understand right that you want to program rubato just for the strings while leaving the sequence tempo intact, another alternative would be to do a combination of what marnix and Sandpiper suggest.

Logic stores up to nine tempo alternatives for each Song. Open the Tempo list (probably just by hitting T, but if not by clicking on the clock/sync icon in the transport or by key command), and then under Options in the local submenu select Tempo Alternative #2; the tempo you've been using will remain in #1.

In an Arrange window, highlight everything but the string tracks and hit command/L to lock everything to the SMPTE position (that way all your notes will stay put when you change tempos).

Then program your tempo variations in Tempo Alternative #2, and when you're ready, freeze the string tracks. That's better than bouncing, because you can quickly thaw them out and work on them.

Now you can go back to Tempo Alternative #1 and (if you want) unlock all your MIDI tracks other than the strings.

[Jack Weaver]

Nice one, Nick!

I've been wondering how to do this for some time.

Thanks.

[Nick Batzdorf]

It occurs to me that you could also lock the rubato string parts to SMPTE position before switching back to Tempo Alternative #1 instead of freezing them. That's actually a better solution, I think.

[fab]

Hey thanx a lot to you all!!

It has highliten my purpose & seems to work wery well with a lil bit of practise!
You're great!!!

Keep on VIsing!


Cheers,


Fab.