@William said:
The "problem" with samples is that they are being used for different purposes. Simple purposes, complex purposes, idiotic purposes, brilliant purposes, etc.
I feel the VSL cellos are extremely "apassionata" already, but you cannot use them instantaneously - any more than you can use a real cello section instantaneously. It depends on how you are using the various notes, articulations, etc. I have the complete original Miroslav library (for which I paid an OBSCENE price at the time), and it was really good, however... it has about one note for each one hundred of VSL. So it is rather limited, to put it mildly. But the basic sound was excellent. Nevertheless, the VSL sound is incredibly good, when used in context, and completely blows away all other sample libraries yet in existence. The biggest problem is when people try to use sounds that are extremely detailed, in all articulations---- generically. That is a disaster. You will fail every time if you think this kind of detail instantly translates into perfect orchestration. Try going to a live orchestra with that assumption and you will discover the same phenomena.
BTW, I have done it. In both cases. And paid the price. I am old and have been punished...
Excellent points William. If we consider a simple string line, and examine it closely, the inflections and subtleties, on top of the broader defined articulations, make for a lot of work, if close emulation of 'live' is our goal. And as someone else who bought Miroslav back some years ago, i've spent considerable amounts of time reshaping and sculpting what was a fairly simply library into something at least half reasonable, not in terms of tone, but the actual mechanics of performance. I couldn't count the time i spent mixing and blending, searching for a 'more real' result.
I also share your view that VSL are the benchmark on which other sample libraries are judged. Tonally, and with many many broad and subtle samples with which we can work, VSL sets the pace.
It's, at this point, worth mentioning the performance. Even with the opportunities available in VSL, ultimately its up to us to take that range further, and shape it into a performance. You'll know, as a fellow Miroslav user, just how hard we have to work to produce a reasonably competent performance. I've also noted how enthusiastic VI owners are when they wax lyrical about the ease of use, and time saved using this important development in sample usage, and manipulation.
Even then, as you quite rightly wrote, using these tools instantaneously isn't possible, anymore than using a live section. Like you, i've conducted and rehearsed orchestras, and there's a deal of work to do before the performance could be ajudged 'ready', so to expect this from samples is unreal.
I'll add to this mention of the skill level of the performer. It took me some time, and a lot of practise, to get to an orchestral performance level on clarinet, and piano. Years and years of study and tutelage. And a sample library, even at what seems now a simple articulative format like Miroslav, is a far more complex instrument to learn, and practise with.
A simple example is bows up and down. How many sample library owners can write a string line with up and downs in the 'right spots?' Hardly a limitation that can be attributed to sample libraries.
And yes my friend, I too have made assumptions in the past about live and sample performance related to expectations of 'instant orchestrative nirvana', and learned through the humility of error that to assume an instant translation is to err in judgement. More than one un-playable part has hit the bin!
I think our own expectations of what one can do 'out of the box' could be reviewed. VSL has gone a long way to making life much, much, easier with the VI's, with a wonderful range of layers and articulations (and that's without mentioning the glorious tone across the libraries), but for a finished, polished, and competent performance, the responsibility for that still remains firmly within our own range of abilities, and our expectations, with one not always matching the other.
Regards,
Alex.