Well, Steve's right. It looks like the stand-alone and the plug-in are sharing polyphony, or maybe one brain lobe. I loaded two perf legato instruments (actually the big programs) and found the same thing: they cut each other off.

In addition, the stand-alone instrument was a little sluggish - there was some latency.

Maybe a second host will solve the problem.

Crap. It was too good to be true!!!

Did you try with two different instruments? Or were there the same patches? (Just making sure).

I don't see how a second host could solve the problem, because we'll be back into the "VSL Server" issue again :/

Wait, hold the presses.

It was operator error. Batzdorf screwed up.

I was modwheel-switching to a short note.

Idiot!

It's working fine.

Now I have to see whether the sluggishness is real...

Yeah, it's working fine.

The latency isn't bad - it was just a slow program. I loaded the same program inside a plug-in instance and it plays exactly the same.

Moral: it's never too good to be true.

Other moral: Batzdorf, slow down before posting. [:)]

Ok, so...

You're basically saying it's working fine. Can you try with three instances + one host? Four independent lines with volume automation... just to see if it works without any problem... and I'll be tempted to get a MacPro and try it out, hehe [:)]


Now, the only problem will be how to get the signal flow to work. Because the whole point is to get at least as many outputs that we would get from a regular computer farm (like the Mac Mini Farm concept, for example).... and if we can't select channels inside the Stand Alone, that's going to get complicated...

Jerome

I messed around with Jack for a while yesterday and this morning, both on ppc and Intel, but I couldn't get the VI standalone to connect to the Jack device -- error about being busy or wrong parameters. I got Soundflower to work yesterday without any real problems, but it does mean only getting stereo input from all running standalones.

Any better experiences from you guys?

J.

--- Actually, to get Jack working would really be the solution, because Jack routes audio by application, so each VI standalone, having selected Jack as its device, would be given an independent input to the Jack router. Ideal... but the VI won't connect to Jack... ouch. Any ideas why this might be, anybody? ------

You can use Built-in as one sound driver and connect lightpipe out to in, then use that as the input inside your host. There's one output.

Then you use Soundflower as the second.

And for the third...are you by any chance using an RME interface? Its loopback mode can route the output back to its own input and then into the software. So you'd have three.

I opened the same file that exhibited problems with notes being cut off yesterday (which had first worked fine and then not worked so well after I fiddled around unsuccsfully with Jack OSX. It still had the same problems this morning. I made a new file that duplicated the settings of the original file (but was not a duplicate thereof).

In Logic:

1. created two MIDI Instruments named VSL Standalone 1 and 2
2 set the ports of these instruments to IAC port 3 and Iac Port 4 respectively.
3. Disconnected the Physical Input sum from the Input Monitor atached to the Sequence Input Object
4. connected the appropriate ports (but not IAC Ports 3 or 4) individually to the Input Monitor.
5. Launched two instances of the standalone and loaded 1 patch into each
6. Instantiated one instance of the VI Plugin as a Logic Audio Instrument

Result:

No more problems with notes being cut off with any combination of 3 perf legato or single note instruments. Only problem is that all standalone audio outputs go to the same channels. I would try Nick's solution if I had the right cables to go from Built In Audio to the MOTU 2408. That loopback feature of the RME interface sounds pretty nifty.

As to why the original file ceased to work properly, I (for want of any obviously compelling evidence) speculate that fooling around with Jack OSX in combination with Soundflower may have damaged the file and caused the cut off notes.

It might be helpful if we started a thread with a feature request for the standalone asking that the folks at VSL consider adding the ability to choose audio output channels to it - - and perhaps also that they consider giving it the ability to receive MIDI on specific channels rather than requring the use of an entire bus.

Again many thanks to everyone for their efforts regarding this issue.

Stephen

Hey Stephen,

it seems to me that the possibility to choose an audio channel out the Stand Alone is not a difficult feature to add. Maybe I'm wrong - but it'd be nice to get VSL view on this. Because if they did allow this, then the whole concept would be perfect. You could have one Stand Alone instance per instrument for example....

Also, I don't think the VSL team will implement Midi Channels anytime soon. It would be a significant departure from their original concept. For now, I'm using transformers inside Logic, to convert channels to controllers. This allows me to have up to 16 samples loaded per VI instance.

Jerome

Okay, three instances stand-alone outside Logic, one instance inside Logic, and one Kontakt 2 outside Logic all working perfectly and solidly on a cue made up of :25 of noodling. The CPU load is normal, latency is fine...although I'm not stressing the memory at the moment.

At this point the only issue is with K2, getting it to see the right MIDI channels of the IAC bus, but it will.

Nick:

Are you saying that the VI plugin loaded into Kontakt 2 inhabits a separate memory segment from that occupied by the VI plugin in Logic so that you're getting two instances of the VSL-Server?

There's no V.I. plug-in loaded into Kontakt 2. I'm running an instance of K2 outside Logic in order for it to get its own memory space just like the V.I. stand-alones are.

I have a V.I. plug-in and a K2 plug-in loaded inside Logic as well. The system isn't maxed out at the moment, but the point is you can access about 7GB that way! And you might be able access as much as 15GB in a 16GB machine!

http://homepage.mac.com/virtualinstruments/.Pictures/Logic,%203%20Viennas,%20K2,%20other%20stuff.png">

Nick:

I think get it - - you are running non Vienna Instrument samples in Kontakt 2. And thanks for your persistent intelligence. (No wonder I'm a subscriber to Virtual Instruments magazine!)

One more question: am I correct in believing that, in light of what you've suggested regarding using the built-in-audio s/pidf output and feeding it back into the main audio interface, one could do the same thing with one or more audio interfaces (attached to the same computer as the main audio interface) so that each of these interfaces could provide a separate output destination for the VI stand-alone but be fed into the main interface?

I want to say that the discussion on this thread is an example of truly creative response to a challenge. I very much hope that the folks at VSL are taking notice and willl incorporate features that make overcoming the 32 bit limit part of the design goal in future releases of Vienna Instruments software.

Stephen

Sure Steve, you can loop the audio back into any audio interface; the interface doesn't know it's coming from its own output. The only potential issues are the obvious ones: you might not want to give up a whole 8-channel lightpipe just for two channels; and you have to be careful not to set up feedback loops.

What I was actually suggesting is looping the Mac's optical S/PDIF back to its own in, and adding the built-in audio interface as part of an aggregate device. I haven't tried that to see if the latency is okay, though; I have been using the Mac's digital in to monitor my MBox 2 dongle for the Pro Tools software, and the latency isn't very good. But that may not be representative, since I'm going through an RCA-optical format converter and haven't tried lowering the buffer.

And thanks for both the compliment and subscribing. [;)]

By the way, both Jerome and I from my armchair were suggesting that making the stand-alone see separate outputs shouldn't be a big deal. It occurs to me that it's using the same output driver the system sound uses; am I right that other software hooks into Core Audio through a different pathway? That might not be so trivial a change.

Oh, and I should also report that Soundflower is the shizzle. I installed it yesterday, and it works really well.

@jbm said:

...
Also, have you heard the recent rumors about Clovertown-based (8-core) Mac Pros in November? Makes my geeky bones shiver.

J.

8 core Mac Pro??????? Where did you hear these rumours???

[[:|]]

M a y a

It was on macrumors.com -- a pretty good place for the latest gossip. The Clovertown processor is a four-core cpu, so two of those, and... welll.... [;)]

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/10/20061025231946.shtml

The mid-November part of the rumor may be far-fetched. Basically, they're just pointing out that this is when Intel launches the Clovertown chip. So, if a Mac Pro revision were ready to go, as it were, it would have to wait for Intel's release... So, they're saying basically "any time after mid-November".

The Clovertown has already been unofficially tested as working in the current Mac Pros (the test article for this is linked from the article above).

cheers,

J.

Maya:

The rumours about 8 processor core Macs based on Intel's Clovertown chip have been rampant on Mac rumor sites for several months. You can check this out at:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2176

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/10/20061025231946.shtml

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6

http://techfreep.com/eight-core-mac-pro-a-reality-with-clovertown.htm

However, the story told by more conservative observers is that Intel will begin to ship the chips in large quantity in November and that the first Macs that will incorporate them may be shown at the MacWorld show in January and become available sooner or later after that. Then in the late spring OS 10.5, which is purported to be a fully 64bit (but compatible with 32bit applications) version of OS X is scheduled to be released. My own hunch that release of OS 10.5 may be followed by a release of a 64bit version of Logic.

I wouldn't rely on Macrumors to decide wether you should wait to buy a new computer or not. They're known for speculating a lot. Of course Apple will come out with 8-core computers. Nothing new here. What's total speculation is the launch date.

Apple came out with the Mac Pro in August, I highly doubt they are going to introduce an update like this 3 months later!

By the way, according to C-Net, the "Clovertown, a four-core processor, will start shipping late this year and hit the market in early 2007." It is very unlikely that it will be manufactured in large quantities before at least January, AND anyway the CPU will be probably too expensive when it comes out...

Someone posted this on the Logic TDM mailing list (which I still skim even though I'm not using TDM anymore).

http://www.xcellent-productions.de/downloads/activity2.png


[:)]