For my larger templates - RAM is always the bottleneck. I have 5 PC's all running 3 gb switches and I STILL want more RAM (many VI's are not currently loaded up on template).

I have giving some serious tought to picking up a sixth machine [:(]

--but heat, noise keep would be an issue. Hoping here for VISTA and the limits of 3 GB to be eliminated. But realistically Vista and software able to run on it is really a year away (for someone who is conservative as I am about sorting out issues and 'beta testing'.

One more big project with unrealistic schedules and I am picking up a sixth machine.


Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

...Hoping here for VISTA and the limits of 3 GB to be eliminated. But realistically Vista and software able to run on it is really a year away (for someone who is conservative as I am about sorting out issues and 'beta testing'.
...

Rob

Although Vista should indeed get around the 3GB limit, for it to really work well, the VSL software and your sequencer software would need to have proper 64-bit versions available. Although no-doubt a couple of frigs and "multiple instances" might be acceptable in the short term.

This might be an oversimplification, but VISTA will *not* allow you to load more than 2.5GB of samples if your host, your OS, and your plug-in/player are not all 64-bit.

Jerome

@Jerome said:

This might be an oversimplification, but VISTA will *not* allow you to load more than 2.5GB of samples if your host, your OS, and your plug-in/player are not all 64-bit.

Jerome

There are ways around that, even with XP64, but you probably won't be able to load more than around 3.7-3.8GB. (speculating wildly). I can currently load 2.85GB without fear of a crash, but have managed to go as far as the elusive 3GB.

DG

Hey DG,

Just a question regarding your current setup - when you load Vienna Instrument Stand Alone, without any samples loaded, what does it say in the "Memory Free" field (under the "Perform" tab)?

Jerome

@Jerome said:

Hey DG,

Just a question regarding your current setup - when you load Vienna Instrument Stand Alone, without any samples loaded, what does it say in the "Memory Free" field (under the "Perform" tab)?

Jerome

Never used Standalone, so I can't say. I'll check tomorrow what it says when I load it as a VST in FXT though.

DG

I currently have a mac g4 tower (1.6 ghz) and an alright PC :/ (p4 2.4ghz) that I could slave off of the new machine (if I get it!)

Wouldn't really have a clue about the best way to slave them both though [:(]

Cheers for your feedback though!

[:D]

I've just had a look into the Mac Pro/Mini Mac slaves + buying extras/monitor seperate - and after all the machines have been kitted out with the periphials/software...

1 Mac Pro [dual 266ghz] + 3 Mini Macs [1.66ghz]


..it actually comes out cheaper instead of buying a wopping BigMac from Apple.

I think thats the option I'm going to go with, a big thank you for the info!

Sorry to be a pain but has anyone got any advice on linking the machines? Or any resources/links to places I can read up on other peoples setups myself.

Thanks! [:D]

For my 2c worth, going the way of slaves is not the best option. In my experience when running a mac tower you will run out of cpu power well before you run out of ram even without optimisations. If getting farms for RAM purposes, the idea might work for some but in my opinion it is redundant. VI even without the optimise function seems to be extremely efficient with RAM usage anyway, I can load at least twice as much as I could with EXS24 and these are 24bit samples in VI, I'm not sure but from the looks of actual usage in activity monitor, I could load double that again without too much worry. Like I said, it's very efficient. Also, Buying a Mac Pro now means, *probably* Mac OSX and VI will be 64bit within the next 12 - 18 months - so if you get 16gigs of ram, it will probably be able to use it sooner than you think - that slave machine will just look like a dog with it's miserable 2gb by then IMO and you'll wish you spent the money on extra ram for the Mac Pro instead of the mini. You would have to be running some pretty enormous orchestrations to run out of RAM on a Mac Pro and even then you have the option of optimistion with in VI which would cut most ram usage down to 10% as an average most of the time. In other words, I disagree with anyone in the post who says RAM is the issue here, it's not, cpu is. When you launch a VI is uses cpu power via the VSL server app even when there is nothing loaded. The more powerfult he machine the better. In short, the more cpu you can get, get it. Even to the point of waiting for the 8core machines to come out which might be April next year - that's the kind of cpu you should be looking at if you want to do very large productions. Essentially that same machine should run 16gigs of ram and with that kind of configuration, you won't be wanting slaves, they'll just get in the way, then you have sync issues, money spent on extra hardware connecting it together, the whole thing, it's just not worth it to my mind. For my money the way machines are going just go for the single machine solution. By the time you get this all set up and get a work flow going you'll be probably less than a couple of months around the corner from the 8cores being released, Leopard shortly thereafter, and VI shortly thereafter that. VI will go 64 bit I'm sure they will do it, it only makes sense for both platforms (once the OS catch up). So it's worth hanging in there, all this technology I think is just around the corner from coming together - say mid next year. Worth waiting for IMO. The quad core cpu's from intel are due for release in December so we can assume that Apple will adopt them based on stock of the existing machines etc, lets say it takes them until late January to annouce the machines at the worst they should be shipping by April. That's the machine to get IMO. Of course all of this is pure speculation but there is a site somewhere where a guy has already managed to swap the dual core cpu's from his mac pro with a prototype 4 core cpu and when he booted up Mac osx showed all 8 cores running. pretty cool. So it can't be that far off.

Miklos.

It all depends on how many articulations you want to have loaded in the background. It you want to load a full orchestra with 3 or 4 articulations per instrument, you will need a *lot* of memory. Don't even think loading it on one PowerMac or Mac Pro, your woodwinds and brass will fill up the 2.5 GB of ram like a snap.

It'd be cool if VI was 64bits by the next 12 or 18 months, but unfortunately there's nothing sure. When I met with Paul a few months ago, he seemed like going 64 bit wasn't a priority at the time. Maybe this has changed, but still...

Also, as I said earlier in this post, the day you can run VI in 64 bits, you'll also need your host to be 64 bit. I met with three guys from the Logic team a few months ago (I know, I meet with a lot people [:)]), anyway - they clearly stated that going 64 bit was clearly not a priority either. They already spent more than a year going from PowerPC to Intel, and in the meantime, the program basically didn't improve at all. As a result, most Logic users are pissed! It's been basically two years that nothing happened. So I doubt they are working on 64-bit right now...

Again, this was a few months ago, and this might have changed, but I don't think developing a 64bit version of Logic will take only a few months. I wouldn't be waiting for that one anytime soon. Digital Performer just got upgraded - it took them three years to come out with a new version, so again, I doubt they will have anything 64-bit soon.

Regarding "smaller" hosts (Rax, or Plogue), their ressources are very limited, and who knows if the developpers even know how to develop in 64-bit. I wouldn't be waiting on that front either :/

So, CPU power is definitely *not* the issue in this specific case. I would be interested in the amazing power of a Mac Pro if I could load enough samples to make it slow down. But that won't be the case. You'll fill up your memory way sooner than your CPU. Mac Pro or not, as of today, you will run out of ram pretty quickly if your goal is to have all the articulations loaded in the background. There's just no other way than computer farms (windows or mac).

Now... waiting for the 8core machines to come out "which might be April next year", is unfortunately speculation. Maybe they'll be out in April. Maybe in September... Who knows? Remember that the G5 was supposed to reach 3Ghz by 2004? I know this is not the same isuse, but my point is - you just never know when a new computer is going to be available.

And anyway, 8-core computers or not, realistically, by April next year, it is doubtful you will be able to use 16 GB of memory from your sequencer (Mac Pro or anything else) with Vienna Instruments.

My guess is that it's going to take at least two years before we're completely up and running (bug and trouble-free) in 64 bit on the Mac (maybe faster on Vista, I don't know about that).

In the meantime, investing the money for a setup that is reliable and expandable does not seem that bad of an idea...

Jerome

@fizzyfox said:

I think thats the option I'm going to go with, a big thank you for the info!

Sorry to be a pain but has anyone got any advice on linking the machines? Or any resources/links to places I can read up on other peoples setups myself.

Thanks! [:D]

Hey fizzyfox - you got PM'ed!

Jerome

@Jerome said:

Hey DG,

Just a question regarding your current setup - when you load Vienna Instrument Stand Alone, without any samples loaded, what does it say in the "Memory Free" field (under the "Perform" tab)?

Jerome

Just checked:

2831MB

DG

Hey DG,

I was indeed able to load up to 3 GB on my setup (with 8GB of Ram). After that, VI crashed.

Not sure it will be possible to up to 3.7-3.8GB on a Mac, until Leopard comes out and we switch to 64-bit.

Jerome

Jerome you may well be right - but so may be I!! [:)]

[:D] True [[:)]]

But since nobody knows for sure, it's not necessarily worth it to wait. I say - if you really feel your current setup is not working well for you, you can upgrade. If not, you can wait. [[:)]]

J.

ps. check out the thread on the VI Stand Alone. It might turn out that you were right regarding CPU power... since it seems we can run numerous instances of the VI Stand Alone and fill up the ram like crazy, then the CPU *is* going to be the issue in that specific setup [;)]

It seemed like the original poster didn't know that these options would be possibly coming up so soon. I know what it's like when you buy the latest only to find it superceeded shortly thereafter - by shorlty I mean, within a few months. Certainly either way - if the standalone thing or 64bit implimentation works out, cpu is the major factor here once again. Even 8 cpu's isn't going to be enough if you want to get into some serious realtime mixing as well and I'm not talking even about MIR (yes I know it's not *intended* for Mac but hoping nonetheless).

Miklos.