Thanks for that. Now to the interesting bit (what a waste of a Sunday; the sun is shining and I live 5 minutes from the forest....):

I've just hooked up a tiny, cr*p plastic keyboard, 3 octaves with mini keys to see what I could do. I have used octave shift and managed to get 21 notes below the bottom of my normal keyboard. I have programmed a few matrices and Bob's your uncle; I can use all the same keyswitches for every single instrument. I still have to get the position right, as the low instruments are causing me back ache, but I'm getting there.

The next (cheap) step is to get a small CME keyboard. This has plenty of controllers as well as the keys. Assuming that I can change the octave enough (I'll find out tomorrow) then I could play the notes on the full size keyboard, and use the little one for all keyswitches, controller data and breath control. Also, this means that I could set up a Lemur for the same process, and even use all the unused notes at the top of the keyboard.

I'll report back as to how practical this all is. have to set up more templates..............

DG

@DG said:

Thanks for that. Now to the interesting bit (what a waste of a Sunday; the sun is shining and I live 5 minutes from the forest....):

I've just hooked up a tiny, cr*p plastic keyboard, 3 octaves with mini keys to see what I could do. I have used octave shift and managed to get 21 notes below the bottom of my normal keyboard. I have programmed a few matrices and Bob's your uncle; I can use all the same keyswitches for every single instrument. I still have to get the position right, as the low instruments are causing me back ache, but I'm getting there.

The next (cheap) step is to get a small CME keyboard. This has plenty of controllers as well as the keys. Assuming that I can change the octave enough (I'll find out tomorrow) then I could play the notes on the full size keyboard, and use the little one for all keyswitches, controller data and breath control. Also, this means that I could set up a Lemur for the same process, and even use all the unused notes at the top of the keyboard.

I'll report back as to how practical this all is. have to set up more templates..............

DG

Daryl,
I'm doing this now. (two keyboards)

I have a cheap evolution 49 something or other that i bought when i first arrived in Moscow. No knobs and switches to speak of, save a pitch wheel and a mod wheel.
I added to that an Edirol PCR-M1. (Little slimline two octave job that fits in the laptop bag.) It has plenty of knobs and switches, including the now usual octave shifter. (And i must say, for an intended mobile Midi controller, pretty handy bit of kit.)
I use the EVO for regular input, and mod wheel stuff, and the edirol for keyswitching, and midi manipulation.
Works a treat, and i don't have to hammer the octave switcher on the evo anymore, just to get to assigned note keyswitches. (for Kai's now legendary Artic tool.)

The edirol is, for all intent and purpose, simply a control surface (a travelling bard's Mackie?), with black and whites as well. (But no breath control, only foot switch and expression capability on the back.)

Regards,

Alex.

Alex, do you find that there is any downside to using the two keyboards? I must confess that I'm still hankering after a Lemur (sounds like some sort of animal perversion), but can't justify the cost.

DG

@DG said:

Alex, do you find that there is any downside to using the two keyboards? I must confess that I'm still hankering after a Lemur (sounds like some sort of animal perversion), but can't justify the cost.

DG

Daryl, no downside in terms of easier workflow. It's a lot easier (for me) to have the keyswitches right there, without going up and down on the octave selector. And the little PCR has a 'Logic integration map' i found on the edirol site, that takes a lot of the legwork out of setting everything up. I get to stop, start, record, etc.. from the controller, instead of using the mouse. (Single button apple, nothing touchy feely about that, lol... [[[[:|]]]] )
Probably the only thing that one could consider a 'downside' is getting everything setup on the desk as to be comfortable to use, but that's individual anyway. (I don't like having to reach too far over the desk. Gives me a backache after a while.) I screwed a small plank up to the underside of my old soviet desk, and the qwerty keyboard goes on that, so i've got things fairly close at hand.
One day, when i'm settled in one spot, i'm going to design and build a desk and chair setup that puts everything at my fingertips, or as closely as possible. I've often toyed with the idea of an old fashioned barber's chair being the base for a configuration that, with a bit of welding, and thought, has all keyboards on frames built onto the chair, with a steel based mouse pad as well. (Lemur on a base frame on the other side?)

Everything on gas powered hinges, so i can push everything out of the way, and pull it into position when i'm seated. And have the screens on hydraulic arms coming down from the ceiling, remote controlled, so i can have them as close to or as far away as i want. Most of the kit i'm talking about is in use already in other applications, so it's not rocket science.
Just a few thoughts........ [:)]

Having been to the Lemur site earlier, i have to agree with you though. Looks like a very interesting bit of kit, and i like the potential for adaptability. Now if we can get a big 'stylus notation tablet' for input as well, i'd be even more enthused.

With all this new fangled stuff coming out, with liquid lights, interechangable screens, etc., we're going to start getting accused of being 'trekkies'.

Going where no muso has gone before...................


[[[[:|]]]] [[:P]] [[[[:|]]]] [[:P]]

I totally understand about ergonomic working patterns. Even though my studio has been in operation for 4 weeks now I am still moving things around to get the right places. When that's done I'll buy some new cables of the correct length, as I hate trailing cables.

DG

@DG said:

I totally understand about ergonomic working patterns. Even though my studio has been in operation for 4 weeks now I am still moving things around to get the right places. When that's done I'll buy some new cables of the correct length, as I hate trailing cables.

DG

Trailing cables? You hate 'em too?

Outstanding. I always thought i had a problem with this. I've bought a lot of cabling over the years, until got it right, and i was satisfied. The crap i took from other muso's over the years because my little studio was always so neat and tidy and not like a 'real' studio at all, in their opinions.

So now there's two of us with the same problem.

I feel better already!

[:D]

@DG said:

I totally understand about ergonomic working patterns. Even though my studio has been in operation for 4 weeks now I am still moving things around to get the right places. When that's done I'll buy some new cables of the correct length, as I hate trailing cables.

DG

Trailing cables? You hate 'em too?

Outstanding. I always thought i had a problem with this. I've bought a lot of cabling over the years, until got it right, and i was satisfied. The crap i took from other muso's over the years because my little studio was always so neat and tidy and not like a 'real' studio at all, in their opinions.

So now there's two of us with the same problem.

I feel better already!

[:D]My studio did get into a real mess, so I had to build a new one. Now it's the only tidy room in the house. Well, I guess that technically it's not really in the house, but that would be splitting hairs.

A neighbour came in to look at the finished (well almost) building and was astonished that everything was so organised. He was even impressed that the desk is on casters so that I can fit the table tennis table and robot in and still have room to swing the bat [:D]

DG

There used to be a little freeware-program for Windows which allowed the use of the QWERTY-keyboard as a MIDI-keyboards (... sorry, I forgot the name). This should work nicely for keyswitching in combination with smaller MIDI-keyboards, too, I think.

bome's mouse keybord - btw, this site has a series of other usefull freeware too.
christian

OK, I've now been using two keyboards for almost a week now and it's GREAT. All my keyswitches are in the same place for all instruments (apart from percussion, which I still haven't got my head round) and it has increased my programming efficiency dramatically. I've ordered a new mini keyboard with loads of controllers (and BC input) so I'll report back on that, but I expect that having all the technical cr*p on one keyboard and the musical bit on the other should make things a lot easier.

One added bonus is that I can transfer the MIDI file to Sibelius and remove all key switches with one filter; what a time saver. In fact if I still wanted to play back with my samples I could filter all the keyswitches, change them to voice 4, hide them and still have playback.

DG