@JJRoach said:

Wow...I just listened to Krypton...and haven't even moved past yet. I just spent the weekend doing my first full orchestral mockup with VI...until this point, I've been tinkering and using small ensembles with limited success...and ran into a couple of walls this weekend with the full orchestral project. ...I really suck at this! and this demo, as well as these others that I'm looking forward to hearing, are just impressive. How do you do it???? (have a few ideas, but that doesn't stop me from sucking at my mock-ups). Wow...

Josh

PS...I'm wondering...just HOW limited am I at this point with the standard library that I'm using (I know...asking if I really need to buy the extended library on VSL's forum seems rediculous, but that's not what I'm getting at...)...this library is amazing, and I KNOW that I should (if I plan on continuing this kind of work) purchase the extended library, but I'm trying to figure out if I'm getting limited results at this point more because I'm not using the library correctly, or more because I haven't purchased the patches that I need to really get the results I'm looking for...

Josh-- LOL!! I don't laugh *at* you. I cry *with* you.

I'll be working for days on something with VI and think I've gotten to "the next level". Then I'll hear one of these demos in mp3, no less, and it usually causes me to shut down my computer for the rest of the day! I mean, after hearing 'Krypton' I 'bout had to change my diaper!!

The compositions are one thing. But the beauty of the space created for these mixes is at least as enjoyable. The quality of the sound would make even a bad piece sound good.

It's nice to know that such mixes ARE possible-- and that they can make a great piece sound even better.

[:)] Thanks for the comments JWL - much appreciated.

Miklos.

Wonderful Guy (haven't gotten to Beat's yet but I am sure it will be wonderful as usual).

Guy - quick question. How did you achieve those string runs about 60-70% the way to the end. They are fabulous. I was thinking 'bits' of the runs included but then I don't know. Please let us know (the brass runs at the end as well)

Just fantastic use of VSL and orchestration.

Rob


(Just took a listen - Beat - wonderful. Personally, just love the tone and playability of the EH2.)

Nice work Guy. It's all making me rather sad that I can't afford the VI .. boo hoo! .. but quite jubilant at the same time cos it sounds really cool.

Ahh, someday!!

Just say the word and I'll put this on the Podcast!

Guy and Beat:

Fantastic! Very well written, performed, and mixed. Guy-I was wondering if you were mixing each intrument in stereo or mono?

Thanks,

Tom

We've added another two demos produced by Beat Kaufmann

Canzon per sonare No1 by Giovanni Gabrieli
featuring Brass II instruments

Sonata in G für Piccoloflöte by Willem deFesch
featuring the piccolo flute

thanks a lot Beat
Herb

Thanks guys!! [:D]

Several questions have been asked about the "2nd Age of Krypton" here and through PM, in a later post I'll answer these questions how I can, and hopefully Miklos will fill in regarding the mix.

To make the service complete - here are the direct links...

Sonata in G for Piccolo Flute by Willem deFesch
featuring the piccolo flute
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4889

Canzon per sonare No1 by Giovanni Gabrieli
featuring Brass II instruments
http://www.vsl.co.at/Player2.aspx?Lang=13&DemoId=4890

Have fun
Beat Kaufmann

___________________________________________________________________
PS
Hey - I learnd to play the Piccolo Flute within 6 hours that way.
Others need lots of years for that.
Who made this possible for me? > Herb and Co.
Yet again - Thanks a lot for this nice instruments!

Thanks Guy for shedding some light on your programming - really just well done!!!


Rob

Josh-- LOL!! I don't laugh *at* you. I cry *with* you.

I'll be working for days on something with VI and think I've gotten to "the next level". Then I'll hear one of these demos in mp3, no less, and it usually causes me to shut down my computer for the rest of the day! I mean, after hearing 'Krypton' I 'bout had to change my diaper!!

The compositions are one thing. But the beauty of the space created for these mixes is at least as enjoyable. The quality of the sound would make even a bad piece sound good.

It's nice to know that such mixes ARE possible-- and that they can make a great piece sound even better.[/quote]

JWL,

thanks for your appreciation [:)]...

Beat,

Thanks so much for putting the time into your webpage...I've just briefly looked at it, but I can't wait to study this stuff. It's really great to have you, and your colleagues be so generous with your hard-earned knowledge. I can't wait to read more about how you've set up the instruments.

Josh

@JJRoach said:

Beat,
Thanks so much for putting the time into your webpage...I've just briefly looked at it, but I can't wait to study this stuff. It's really great to have you, and your colleagues be so generous with your hard-earned knowledge. I can't wait to read more about how you've set up the instruments.
Josh

Unfortunately some tutorials are not made for the new VI instruments. But nevertheless you will find some tips in using samples or making music with samples

Have fun and success!

Beat

Beat,

One more thank you for all you do!!!!


Just a quick question from your site.


http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/images/hintergrunddienst.gif

On this setting (sorry - don't speak your language [:O]ops: ) but I assume I set the 'processor scheduling' to background services. Wouldn't it be better for 'Programs'?

Also - what do you recommend for a 3 GB switch machine to have the "Virtual Memory" set to?

Mine is at 2046 mb (It actually 'recommends' that I have it at 4990 mb). I read somewhere to not have any virtual memory and other places that is should be 1.5 x the ram installed (in this computer it is 4 MB)

Thanks for your help on this Beat.


Rob

rob, your assumption is right .... background services
http://vsl.co.at/upload/users/449/backgroundservices.gif">
as a rule of thumb for standard machines with not too much RAM (512 is still pretty common) it is recommended to have the same amount of virtual as physical RAM, sometimes even more.
for audio machines (where you should really have 2 GB RAM or even more) it doesn't make sense to have virtual memory - you woudn't want any application to use it (even if it could) for performance reasons.

to let windows decide if and when to move assumed unused data to the pagefile can result in unexpected hickups
christian

@cm said:

rob, your assumption is right .... background services
....as a rule of thumb for standard machines with not too much RAM (512 is still pretty common) it is recommended to have the same amount of virtual as physical RAM, sometimes even more.
for audio machines (where you should really have 2 GB RAM or even more) it doesn't make sense to have virtual memory - you woudn't want any application to use it (even if it could) for performance reasons.

to let windows decide if and when to move assumed unused data to the pagefile can result in unexpected hickups
christian

Sorry Rob - We had a very nice, warm and wonderful summer evening today in Switzerland so I was not at home while you cried SOS. [:O]ops:
But now I see that Christian already answerd your questions ...

Thank you Christian - for doing my work [[;)]]


Beat

with pleasure ... although the screenshot is from a server2003, so the tabs might differ from XP
christian

Thanks guys.

So setting the VM to "0" shouldn't impact how much I can load up on RAM for these 3 GB machines (with the 3 GB switch)?

Many thanks.

Rob

Guy has asked me several times to answer some questions about the mix process and I've been trying to get around to it for days now. Of course I'm happy to share some comments on that it's been impossible this week to find a few minutes to reply.

The big thing first of all from a mix perspective is that VI is 24bit over the old 16 bit format. For me personally just speaking from a mixing perspective I find this to be a huge improvement and immediately makes it easier to achieve a better sound at the finished output when mixing a large number of instruments. It's just a start off on the right foot.

Second it's good to acknowledge the concept that VSL is essentially a dry recorded sample library, which means you need to think like an engineer who wants to place the sound and sculpt that sound. It's not as easy as some libraries, but it is far more flexible and ultimately you can achieve a wider variety of sounds. In this convolution reverb is essential in my opinion. Otherwise I think things tend to sound flat. You don't record musicians in a room all on the same spot you place them - this is important to create depth.

Third, as Guy said more than other libraries you need to use your ears, listen to how it sounds see what works. Beat has a good tutorial I read a while back on his site about tailoring instruments with eq according to their placement with other instruments - I didn't get into that much in these mixes, I wanted to present the VI sounds more "honestly" as that is what people want the demo for - but I did some compensative eq on sections of instruments sometimes based on the affect of the reverb sometimes but very little. The point is that his technique is interesting and a good idea - but small moves, and listen. Do research, listen to the mixes, think about the concepts behind the library and any equipment you are using and how it will affect the sound, listen to the results, and also an important thing - take rests, let your ears "breathe" so you can come back and hear it fresh. Try listening to the mix louder at times (not too loud), and quiet, your listening room is very important. Simple things like that. Finally the thing I try to do is approach the mix as a musical endeavour not a technical one, and there, you have to use your musicality with your technical knowledge as an assistant not the leader.

For my own input I think Guy's composition, performance and programming of this latest demo is just astoundingly excellent fun to listen to (and mix!) when you consider it is one persons performance - bravo! Thank you!

By the way my name on VSL is mpower88 if anyone wants to message me.

All the Best,
Miklos Power.





As to what technic I use to get this sound as this was asked to me by some, on this thread and through PM, I don't have a single technic, it changes on a daily basis looking for better ways all the time. My ways might not work for someone else, I think it's a personal thing which adapts to your own musical needs and although I do have some little secrets of mine I think it's more important for people to develop their own VSL technics tailor made for them and their set up to suite their personal style. But all I can say is don't settle for one way, use your imagination, which is what I do all the time. 9 out of 10 things I try don't sound good but the 10th works, what tells me if it works: my ears, that's basically my technic, as I've seen Dietz say (I think): "if it sounds good, it's good". I try very hard to find the perfect articulation through the right patch or with several combinations and occasionally I get lucky....like discovering plutonium at the end of long walk. Although I'm flattered to see some of these reactions but at the same time I feel I still have a long way to go, but it's reassuring to know that VSL is there to make these tools available for us which is the essential." I apologize if some were expecting detailed explanation of technics used in Second Age of Krypton, but after thinking about it I realized it's more a combination of dozens and dozens little things that added together make something interesting and I wouldn't know where to began explaining this.


Regards,

Guy

@Guy said:

[...] I've seen Dietz say (I think): "if it sounds good, it's good". [...]
Guy

[:)] Yes, that was me (actually "If it sounds right, it is right"), but as a matter of fact that's a quote from famous producer/engineer Joe Meek, as far as I remember.

... anyway - a good motto to stick to!

Dietz,

...and I thought you were a genius! [[;)]]

@Guy said:

Although I'm flattered to see some of these reactions but at the same time I feel I still have a long way to go, but it's reassuring to know that VSL is there to make these tools available for us which is the essential." I apologize if some were expecting detailed explanation of technics used in Second Age of Krypton, but after thinking about it I realized it's more a combination of dozens and dozens little things that added together make something interesting and I wouldn't know where to began explaining this.


Regards,

Guy

First, thanks again to you and Miklos for a fun listening experience.

Of course, there is no set of instructions on one page to answer all questions. I appreciate the smaller bits of information and insight because I'm compiling my own "combination of dozens and dozens little things" which are being added together in different ways for different purposes.

But it's always the last 15-20% of the process that is the most difficult for me. There are so many variables with sculpting the sound that one can suddenly find himself with an infinite series of decisions to make, only to choose one that "sort of works" and then wonder what would have happened had any of the other millions of approaches had been taken.

Often, once it's done-- it's done. "If it sounds good, it is good." It's often so difficult to remix, and it rarely happens if the previous mix indeed sounds good.

Because VSL-VI is so different even from its predecessors, I feel as though I'm having to completely rethink ways of mixing virtual instruments in general. So much can be taken for granted because it's "in the box" with the usual front-end mic-room-preamp issues already addressed.

So, please forgive me for sounding at times like a 2 year old kid with so many questions....

Just know that hearing anything from the VSL team is valuable information and greatly appreciated, even in small quantity. Everyone thinks differently, and it's impossible to know without communication whether someone else's approach may offer tremendous benefits to one's own workflow and results.

Vielen Dank noch einmal mit Vergnügen!!
JWL