Ok, for your amusement, here's a dummy question.

[hermitage59]

As a gigging muso for many years, i knew my way around a mixer in the simplest of context, left right, front back, when is too much reverb etc. But that was at the simplest of levels, and due to a series of events, i ended up missing a fairly large learning curve in relation to applying effects and placement for recorded music. It's really daft, because i spent a lot of time in recording studios, well, recording, but not a sustained period of time sitting behind a desk learning to mix properly.

So, with all that in mind i have a few questions, that i hope some of you geniuses could help me with.

Reverb.
What is pre-delay?
I understand the concept of placing the instrument in a mix, not only front to back but left to right. How does pre delay affect this equation, and if a wet/dry/ mix is part of this process, how does one set this up?

What is sidechaining?
I seem to understand this as putting the wet signal through a separate buss, but somehow joining it again with the original dry signal. If this is so, how do i set it up? If not, well, what is sidechaining?

How do i measure with a millisecond yardstick the time of signal for a given distance? i.e. I visualise my recording from a point approximately 10 metres behind the composer, as a listener. Given a stage is 30 metres wide, and 10 metres deep (as a generic example) how many milliseconds would i use to place the bassoon for example, or the percussion. I'm relating this question to reverb delay, as for the life of me, i'm struggling with getting a clear woodwind sound, usually ending up with a hollow sound as if the players are a couple of kms away. Yet if i correct this, the WW then sound like they're sitting next to the conductor.
Is there a generic millisecond/distance formula that will at least provide a beginning.

This was fairly easy to do on an old analogue mixer, but i'm struggling in Digital.
(Still got the ink on my fingers from 'proper' music writing.....!)

When using Busses for pre effects (i.e. 4 busses for strings), what's a good place to start in terms of verb settings? I'd like to individualize the strings to place them correctly, and yet, if i'm to sidechain (whatever that is) and mix the wt/dry signal for placement, would i then need 8 busses (two for each section) or am i completely misunderstanding the process? (Feel free to throw tomatoes, and regale me with your expertise!) [:P]

I'm of the mind that much of today's music is overcompressed. When mixing for concert, do i need to compress at all? I can hear subtones that rumble away, and am capable of EQ'ing these to minimise the effect, but just how much advantage or disadavantage is there in compression? As most of my stuff is concert, could any answer please reflect that? How much dynamic range is lost with light, medium, and heavy compression, and what other effect is usually applied with compression, if any?

Finally, if any one has the time to describe a generic mix setup of effects and basic settings for a full orchestra mix in a concert hall, i'd be grateful. I've availed myself of Hetoryn's excellent mixer chart, (Thanks!) and learnt a bit, but it's possible a start point would help further. The mix doesn;t have to be perfect, just reasonable. I'm knocking plenty of stuff out for short jobs, etc, but i'm getting some serious phone calls now, and my initial study project here may well extend into permanent residence, and studio build. (I have some big decisions to mull over.)

Any help with this would be appreciated, as i'm having to understand this in a short time, and be able to present well for a job coming up. I don't actually have to do the mix, but the producer will expect me to know some of what i'm talking about. I have a good set of ears, and that's got me by, but i'm now faced with taking the mixing and production side of this business a little more seriously.

Regards,

Alex.

p.s. For all you fellows who don't know simple stuff about mixing, etc. send me your questions by PM. I'll ask them on your behalf if you're worried about humiliating yourselves, or feeling too embarrassed to ask.
Then there's only one dummy, and your cool is intakt!


[[[:|]]] [H] [[[:|]]]

[YWT]

Hi, Alex
I am now creating a project named "An Ultimate Mixing Template for simulating classical recording & mixing environment". I will get this done tonight(in Beijing it's night now [[;)]] ). In it I will describe my studies and thought on mixing of orchestral music. Some of your question can be explained in it. But may there will be more to ask too.

All the best! And somehow, I will need help from experienced classical recording engineers like you [:)]

YWT

[hermitage59]

YWT,

Thanks. I'll have a look.

Greetings from Moscow!

Regards,

Alex.

[Beat Kaufmann]

Hi Alex
You will find some answers here...

1) The farther an instrument in a room the more indirect sound you will receive as a listener.
This parameter you mix with the "WET/DRY-balance"
Listen to the example "ratio Dry/Wet" here:
http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/tipspcmusic/howtousevslaudio/index.php#50946996180043a33


2) Predelay
The first signal you will recognize as a listener is the direct signal. A little bit later
the first indirect signals (reflected by walls etc.) will receive you. This "a little bit" is the
"predelay parameter". This is one of lots of parameters which gives us the feeling of the
room size or/and the distanz of the music player(s).

A complete information about predelay, early reflections and more around reverb you will find here:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/manual-1.2/effects_reverb.html


3) The speed of sound is ~ 300m/s > so for every meter you can calculate 3.33ms of
delay > at 5m=17ms, 10m=34ms 15m=50ms ...
Hou to use this information with a reverb?
> Musician's distance = 20m = 66ms (20x3.33ms) of predelay?
That's not quite correct because also the direct signal has its delay. The delayed (predelay) first reflections
always give us the impression of the roomsize. They can receive you only some ms later
even if the roomsize is a large one. But it is possible too that they have a
delay time of 20, 30, 50ms. So it is a very complex matter.

Beat Kaufmann

[JWL]

hermitage-- my hero. Such courage. Such humility.

Beat is your power genius here. I'm cut more from the same cloth that you are. My motto is "if it sounds right, it's right", whatever that means. I'm more visceral than mathematical, and that has both helped and hurt. Since the release of VSL PE and VI, I'm trying to play catch up to better my engineering skills.

@Another User said:

p.s. For all you fellows who don't know simple stuff about mixing, etc. send me your questions by PM. I'll ask them on your behalf if you're worried about humiliating yourselves, or feeling too embarrassed to ask.
Then there's only one dummy, and your cool is intakt!


[[[:|]]] [H] [[[:|]]]

Such courage. Such humility. [:P]

[hermitage59]

Thank you to you all for the tips and tricks.
I can appreciate there are possible many like me who played, and gigged, with the deep science of mixing and engineering left to experts who knew what they were doing. I've experimented a lot, and have some sort of semi reliable base i can work from, but the additional information is greatly appreciated, and i hope will give me firmer ground from which to push further.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Alex.