I too tried wormhole at one point. The latency made it pretty much useless. Too bad.
If it's working better now I might give it a go again... I am registered, after all!

I won't need anything until I finally jump-in and replace my PC with a Mactel -- probably a laptop of some kind -- as I've currently got an old DIGI 9636/52 in the PC!!! Nice card! Too bad there's no Mactel with a standard PCI slot... and probably never will be. (Actually, it would still be really smart for Apple to put a standard PCI slot or two on the new towers. Here's hoping that they do.)

J.

hey I just got an idea: audition your compositions using the noisy analogue outs on the mini's, with cheap merger box, and bounce your final takes using the built-in network audio on OSX (with ridiculous latency, but who cares if ur only bouncing).

That's a totally reasonable solution, Leon.

You know, I think it's so easy to get caught up in a sort quest for the Holy VSL Grail. Admittedly, there are ideal situations, but who can really afford them? Or at least, who can afford them while they're still "new"?

I, for one, know I spend way too much time dreaming up "ideal" solutions to current problems (as dramatically proven in other threads). Slowly... very slowly... I'm starting to realize that I'd be better off just working with what I've got, and trying to make some damn music! There will _always_ be limitations. It's as simple as that.

cheers,

J.

I'll keep you all updated when I install and start working with my slave...I've been lucky enough to only need my dual 2.7 so far!...

Josh

try this

To each Audio Instrument track insert an I/O plug-in. (Stereo>Logic>Helper>I/O).
When the I/O Plug-in pops up on the screen, assign any bus to its output (1-2, for instance) and assign another bus to its input (1-2, for instance). Then put the plug-in into BYPASS mode. This forces Logic to treat this channel as a live input, thereby eliminating any latency that would otherwise occur.


from the old EXS 24 / VSL as slave instructions

HEY ALL,

Regarding WORMHOLE...I'm happy to report that I have it working just fine on my system!

Here's my setup:

master 2.7 dual G5
slave 1.8 single G5

both machines plugged into an ethernet router.

software that I'm running:
on both:
wormhole
&
Music Lab's MIDI over LAN CP3
(http://www.musiclab.com)

on Slave: Digital performer (I also have Plogue...but Haven't played with it yet)
on Master: Logic

ok...
I'm sure all y'all know how to set up something like MIDI over LAN (Tiger also has MIDI over Network feature, but it doesn't activate ports...or autoload when you boot computer...MusicLab's software does)...so, once you make sure MIDI is travelling correctly,


WormHole...
it's also really easy...

but, the latency that was mentioned earlier in this thread was overcome in my studio by making sure that the latency setting on the SENDING instance of Wormhole on the SLAVE COMPUTER, was at a LOW setting ( have it at 6, but I think it works at 0samples as well....supposedly, wormhole is supposed to configure itself, but I changed stuff around....

also, make sure that they are in "sync" by checking the 'sync' box on the plug-in (in my case, I have to make sure that DP on my slave is running at the same sample rate/bit depth as my master...but I think you all already knew that)...also, I've checked "play through" on the Wormhole Plugin.

Good luck...I've only run 1 instance of it with the DLSMusicDevice on my slave, but VI is next!

Josh

@svonkampen said:

AND btw....
The Mini-Mac 1.67 Dual with 2 gig Out performs my G5 2.0 Ghz Dual!!

Whoa!! I'm still trying to get my head around this issue!! [[:|]]

Mini bus speed = 167 Mhz
2.0 Dual bus speed = 1Ghz

The more I live,
The more I learn.
The more I learn,
The more I realize,
The less I know.

Remakable!

For the price, a trio of Minis would solve a lot of issues right now for me.... First of the month-- bills are due.

Crap!! [:@]

Whoa!! I'm still trying to get my head around this issue!! [[:|]]

Mini bus speed = 167 Mhz
2.0 Dual bus speed = 1Ghz


...Yeah...I don't get it either...!

Josh

Hey Josh--

You feel like taking a road trip down-coast to check in on SVK? I'm right up the street from you!! [[:|]] [:D]

@homebilly said:

try this

To each Audio Instrument track insert an I/O plug-in. (Stereo>Logic>Helper>I/O).
When the I/O Plug-in pops up on the screen, assign any bus to its output (1-2, for instance) and assign another bus to its input (1-2, for instance). Then put the plug-in into BYPASS mode. This forces Logic to treat this channel as a live input, thereby eliminating any latency that would otherwise occur.


from the old EXS 24 / VSL as slave instructions

Could it be? The same homebilly from U-nation?

@JWL said:

Hey Josh--

You feel like taking a road trip down-coast to check in on SVK? I'm right up the street from you!!

Do you mean on the street of confusion???!

Yeah, a visit with SVK would probably teach ANYONE a thing or two.

Josh

I'm going to have to try Wormhole again. It was totally unusable when I tried it on two G5s.

Nick,

Perhaps there's been a wormhole update since you last tried?...just thinking out loud here. Good luck.

Josh

Wormhole update....

for latency issues...be sure you're using Gigabit Ethernet.

Josh

I'm using gigabit ethernet. But of course I'm going to have to try again.

I think you need to take the host into account when you're making the machine comparisons. Someone posted that Vienna Instruments performs better in DP5 than in Logic - not that I want to spread rumors, because I haven't installed DP 5 yet (it just got here).

But it doesn't surprise me that an Intel Mac works better. I found the performance in Windows to be ahead of the Mac (at least in Logic) at this stage, and some of that could just be the processor. However, you can also access a total of 5GB on a G5 (3GB for Vienna Instruments + 2 in other samplers), so it's not like the Mac is a total dead loss for this application. [:)]

Good points Nick. ...but you already knew that!

Josh

There seems to be some confusion about the bus speed here... The front side bus speed on the Mini is 667 MHz, not 167 MHz. That would be a huge, and totally unnecessary bottleneck. The bus speed is certainly playing a large part in the performance increase between the old G4 Mini and the Intel one -- obviously, processor design and speed are huge, but the bus has to keep up as well.

J.

JBM,

Pardon the incompetence here, but which bus speed are you talking about?? bus speed for firewire hubs, bus speed for the proccessors??? I got a little lost on that.

...I bought a mac mini two days ago and maxed out the ram...running it as a slave, Logic slave, with MIDI over LAN and wormhole...it's BEAUTIFUL. I ran out of RAM before processor ceiling (I think...hard to tell...ran into some trouble, but didn't really investigate to see if the problem was freedom, overworking the eXt. hard drive where the sounds were, or midi info crap that I hadn't cleaned up yet)...PS...running a woodwind section on a mac mini, 7 instances of VI, 1 picc, 1 flute a3, 1 oboe a3, 1 clarinet a3, 1 bassoon a3, 1 contrabassoon. all running pretty simple matrices though. It definitely out-performs my g5 single 1.8 with 4 gigs of ram in it (only can run a percussion and harp section on it...tried running that plus a small brass section...not pretty...it sucks too because I got this G5 for $1000 bucks in september...I should have waited till the minis came out!!!)

Josh

Josh, are you running the VI on the internal hard drive? Also, what kind of latency are you getting with wormhole? Lastly, what AU host are you using to stack up the seperate VI instances? Thanks [;)]

Well, I was just surprised by your mentioning the bus speed on the Mini as being as low as 167 MHz, which didn't make sense to me. However, it's no secret that Apple generally finds some way of crippling the lower-priced machines to push people toward the pro machines; or at least that was common practice in the past. A good example is the older G4 733, against its brother the G4 867. The 733 had only a 256k L2 cache and NO L3 cache, against the 867's 2MB L3 and was terribly slow as a result, even though the processor speed _seemed_ to be very close. A lot of people didn't check the detailed specs, and were sorely disappointed as a result -- pretty hopeless for running audio.

So, though I was surprised, it wasn't beyond imagining... I went to the Apple page and checked the Mini specs but it is, in fact, a 667 MHz bus. phew! The front side bus is between processor, chipset, and RAM, basically. The later G4s had a bus way behind the times, and it was a substantial bottleneck. In fact, one of the biggest improvements made for the G5 was actually the bus and logic board re-design; the processor was a big improvement, but the bus was probably bigger. Anyway, firewire is firewire. It can be affected by crappy controllers (generally try to find Oxford chipsets for drive cases, if you can), but the spec remains the same.

J.