Problem with Legato Strings

[u1424682]

Hello to all legato players,

I have several problems with the legato performance and ask you for urgent help, because I have to finish a CD-project next week with pieces from good old Ludwig van ...

1. First note of a legato phrase doesn't play! I've read about this problem in this forum, but the only solution I found was to load the correct pal-files within the p-tool and I'm pretty shure I've done this right: This time solo violin with hor-legato and the tool template "01 VI_perf-leg.pal" for solo strings.

2. very harsh attacks on certain legato notes (first I thought these notes aren't recognized as part of a legato phrase, but because of my first problem (see above) this is obviously impossible)

3. some ugly "jodel"-ing at certain legato transitions

I have prepaired a midi- and the resulting mp3-file for exact demonstration, but I don't know how to post them here. So my first question will be, how to attache files to a thread.

thank you in advance, greets and please save me (& the children for whom this CD will be created [;)])

Ricardo

[u1424682]

I hope that this link works: http://home.arcor.de/ricardo.hohmann/">http://home.arcor.de/ricardo.hohmann/

1. first note not playing: obvious, should be "A3"
2. harsh attack: i.e. 4th and 8th note in bars 1&2 (each time "C4"), but also on some other notes during the following bars
3. "jodeling": bar 3, transition from 2nd to 3rd & 6th to 7th note.
4. bar 7, 1st and 5th note: I'm not shure whether this is downward-jodeling or just another harsh attack.
5. bars 4&5: perfect

the problems also appear with the "VI_perf-leg_p" samples, but in my example (played with "VI_perf-leg_f") they are more obvious to hear.

maybe the ugly attacks and the bad transitions are a problem within the samples themselves, because they appear on different places each time I transpose the MIDI notes up or down. But please let me know what you think of it.

Thank you a lot,
Ricardo

[DG]

@1424682 said:

I hope that this link works: http://home.arcor.de/ricardo.hohmann/">http://home.arcor.de/ricardo.hohmann/

1. first note not playing: obvious, should be "A3"
2. harsh attack: i.e. 4th and 8th note in bars 1&2 (each time "C4"), but also on some other notes during the following bars
3. "jodeling": bar 3, transition from 2nd to 3rd & 6th to 7th note.
4. bar 7, 1st and 5th note: I'm not shure whether this is downward-jodeling or just another harsh attack.
5. bars 4&5: perfect

the problems also appear with the "VI_perf-leg_p" samples, but in my example (played with "VI_perf-leg_f") they are more obvious to hear.

maybe the ugly attacks and the bad transitions are a problem within the samples themselves, because they appear on different places each time I transpose the MIDI notes up or down. But please let me know what you think of it.

Thank you a lot,
Ricardo

OK, I hear two things. The first note should be a start note, but that little grace note means that it isn't for some reason. The release times sound too short for some of the transitions; the means to do this depends on the sampler being used. I think that the "yodelling" is caused by the fact that you are using Opus, which is not chromatically sampled. Try leaving a gap (alter the release) and use a start note where this happens. Alternatively use a repeat note instead.

BTW this is all an octave too high isn't it?

DG

[u1424682]

Hello and thank you for your reply,

1. yes, I ended up an octave high (concerning Beethoven original score). Oops! & pardon me.
That happened when I started transposing around to see/hear the difference. In its original pitch there are different notes (as described) that stick out in an unbeautiful and non-legato manner. If you can listen to my legato example without getting mad that this is not the original Beethoven pitch, then I would suggest to stick with this example for simplicity.

2. No, I don't use (& own) Opus. This is the violin from the horizon solo strings.

3. there is no grace note at the beginning, it's just the first note missing. What you hear is the legato-transition to the next note. If I would shorten some midi-notes (or the legato threshold in the p-tool), there would be more starting notes missing. Just have a look at the MIDI-file and you will see.

I'm still testing around with VSL legato and have to add, that the first legato notes do play correctly using the pro editions violin essemble (+ the proper tool template from the pro edition).
Is it possible that there is a conflict between the solo violin from the pro edition (which I had before purchasing the horizon solo strings) and the solo violin files from the horizon solo strings? I cannot remember whether I overwrote the old by the new files or let them as they were.

thank you once again, Ricardo

[DG]

@1424682 said:

2. No, I don't use (& own) Opus. This is the violin from the horizon solo strings.

3. there is no grace note at the beginning, it's just the first note missing. What you hear is the legato-transition to the next note. If I would shorten some midi-notes (or the legato threshold in the p-tool), there would be more starting notes missing. Just have a look at the MIDI-file and you will see.

I'm still testing around with VSL legato and have to add, that the first legato notes do play correctly using the pro editions violin essemble (+ the proper tool template from the pro edition).
Is it possible that there is a conflict between the solo violin from the pro edition (which I had before purchasing the horizon solo strings) and the solo violin files from the horizon solo strings? I cannot remember whether I overwrote the old by the new files or let them as they were.

thank you once again, Ricardo

I understand about the grace note; I just wasn't sure that you did

OK, well one of the excuses is gone as you are using the Solo Strings package, and this is chromatically sampled. I think that you will have to mess around with release times on a case by case basis I'm afraid. Do try my suggestion of using a repeat note for a different timbre.

Regarding overwriting the Pro Edition, I don't know, but it might be worth checking and deleting it anyway just to make sure that the mapping is correct, as in some respect the Horizon series is not the same as the Pro Edition.

D

[Paul]

Hi Ricardo,

I believe that you need to activate the HOR-Legato for the Solo Strings. As you have already registered your Solo Strings successfully, you might have donw so already....

If you can choose HOR-Legato in your Performance Tool, please do so!

If you can´t, please activate theses modes for the PT (you find "Activate Modes" or similar in the menu, the process is also described in your PT Manual).

Best,

Paul

PS: thanks, DG, for chiming in!!

[u1424682]

Hello again,

HOR-legato is activated and used. Meanwhile I have copied/extracted the DVD-files from my hor solo strings over the existing ones on HD (probably the solo violin and solo cello files from the pro edition) and BINGO: the first-note problem is solved.

Would have been helpful to be informed that these files aren't the same, but at least I could handle it myself.

Also the hint to use the rep. trigger as an alternative from DG is pretty useful for some passages, but it is still a horrible sounding legato performance. Sorry, but I have to say this.
BTW, I wouldn't care if there is no easy way to set up good legato arpeggios and I'm also happy with an "edit note by note" solution.

Maybe it's the wrong approach to complain about harsh attacks and bad transition between legato tones. So I'll try the other way around:

Can anyone please show me smooth sounding arpeggios - played legato - like you would expect it i.e. in Beethoven's sonata for violin and piano "the spring"?

Thank you and please help, Ricardo