Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Do you think DP5 is considerably more effecient than DP4? I have a Dual 2.7 and I don't think I could load up that much in DP4.

  • Dave- not considerably so- perhaps 10 to 15% more efficient than 4.61. It feels more elegant than 4. How much Ram/VI's have you loaded up so far & buffer settings? You should be able to load more on a 2.7 than a 2.5.

  • Bruce,

    5 instances of VSL Orch I+II (each with three big matrixes and then some) shows as 1.93 gigs of real memory and 2.30 of virtual. I don't really understand why it displays that way - maybe you can tell me what your Activity Monitor says (mine is set at All Processes, Hierarchically.) System Memory shows Used ram at 4.29 gigs with 2.09 inactive (I have 6.5 gigs ram.)

    My buffer is at 512 with Host Buffer at 1 and Work Priority set to High. The one time I changed the Host Buffer to 2 it crashed DP but I should maybe try again. I really don't understand these various parameters except for the buffer setting of course.

  • 512 buffer with a host setting of 1 should be just fine. Here's my RAM useage on the slave Mac 2.5. Wired: 1.35 gb, active 540.48 mb, inactive 2.03 GB, Used: 3.91 GB,Free: 94 MB, VM size: 8.07 Gig with 4 Gig Real Ram. Make sure you are using the latest software 1.06..

  • I'm running 1.06. The only large difference in our read-outs is Active where mine shows 206 MB. So maybe I can load more. It seemed to me things got a little unstabile when I tried to load more (but it may have been a drive/polyphony issue because I had all the strings really churning - and that was with an earlier version as well.)

    I'll see what I can load up beyond what I have now.

    Thanks for all the help.

  • I'm sure seeing a lot of disturbing messages on the Unicornation Forum about DP5...punch in problems, sudden Quits, new features that don't work well (the meter bridge crashes the program if it's up and you add more tracks or something like that).

    Logic has been very stable save for one or two things that just don't work and are supposed to (freezing), but I'm gunshy of DP5, even though I love the feature set.

    Let us know how stable it is for you...

    Tom

  • DP 5.01 maintenance upgrade (just recently released) is very solid. No problems.

    Gary

  • Different systems behave differently with the same combinations of software. By and large, the reports are quite good with DP 5.01 from those who are using VI, and many reports confirm Bruce's slightly higher instance count.

    Most of the earlier reports on U-nation had to do with the location of MAS-native VI's, but AU VI's all seem to be fine. There were other reports of those having to rebuild their V-Stacks, but many of the problems stemmed from a mismatched set of drivers-- some updated, some not, and a hodge-podge of hard drive configs, audio format wrappers, etc.

    The concencus, as always, is to use whatever works best on your system. Stability is not to be underrated!

  • Yeah Logic has been rockin' for me.

    The problems up on Unicorn haven't been VI related (the ones I'm speaking of) they have been to do with other issues, and confirmed by MOTU and other users. I think a 5.01 update installer fixed some things, not others.

    Tempted to give it a whirl though, but I doubt I could give up Logics non real time bouncing options...saves me hours...

    TH

  • DP is also non real-time isn't it? I thought that Logic was real-time.

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    @dpcon said:

    DP is also non real-time isn't it? I thought that Logic was real-time.


    DP Freezes tracks in real time, Logic doesn't. Of course, the Freeze function in Logic is iffy at best, but Logic has two other options for rendering instrument tracks to disc as audio, both non real time.

    It literally saves me hours a week and is the main reason I use Logic.

    Tom

  • Okay I get you. I was differentiating betweenbouncing and freezing. DP is non-real time when bouncing. I haven't used the freeze function yet.

  • I too am a hardened Logic user but also am seriously considering moving over to DP5....the ease with which you can record audio from a AU instrument is so great instead of all this bouncing , picking up from the audio window dropping, getting it into its correct place.....i am kinda losing the will to live just talking about it!

    Logic is a great program on many other levels and I have used many different platforms over the years....but DP has my attention - especially now it has all the streamer / sync to picture capabilites - so going to give it a serious try - and if I can get more instances of VI's out of it.....WHEY!

    [edit:] Also I think the way that Logic handles delay compensation is different to DP. As far as I can tell DP pulls audio off the disk earlier - where as Logic delays the input signal to match the Hard Disk - which plays havoc with softsynth latency. The try putting a UA La2a (or any 3rd party DSP card plug in) on the Audio Instrument channel and watch the latency go thru the roof - where as on DP it seems to not hit it so hard and is very useable....maybe also a MAS / AU thing.

    Swings and roundabouts I guess.....!

  • I've had Logic for a number of years, but I really prefer working in DP, and I really love how VI works in DP. Most of my counter-productivity with PE had a lot more to do with working with Logic and not the VSL collection. I've used VI in both Logic and DP, and so far I've only been able to do complete works in DP.

    Someone on U-nation said that DP5 was only half-baked, but there are a lot of happy users, one of whom asserted that DP5.0 was more like 98% baked. 5.01 and .02 (to come) will only make it better. I'll take 98%.

    There are so many things about Logic that I love-- offline MIDI bouncing, the sound of VSL in the ESX24. But the Environment and the Object (aka: the Place and the Thing), channel splitting, and all the extra tech tweaking tend to make me more aware of the app rather than the music.

    I am inspired by svK's success with a triple G5 setup, and am eager to add at least one G5 as a starter farm. DP 5 is going to be a joy with this.

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    @PaulM said:

    I too am a hardened Logic user but also am seriously considering moving over to DP5....the ease with which you can record audio from a AU instrument is so great instead of all this bouncing , picking up from the audio window dropping, getting it into its correct place.....i am kinda losing the will to live just talking about it!



    Paul, yeah that's me exactly. You are so right. Every day I do just what you describe a dozen times. It is a bit of a drag. I think I've always just been a little infatuated with that big Arrange window. Something about that just seems to make everything so accessible.

    I have DP 4.61. I've played with it a few times, but what confuses me about DP is how to manipulate waveforms onscreen. It just seems so cumbersome....it's like I click on the waveform and try to manipulate it in some way and it just stands there. I think you have to somehow make it "pop up" or something, I just need to get over that aspect of it and I'd probably be fine.

    I too am very intrigued by the streamers. MOTU has always supported the scoring side of things better than anyone. Guess I just need a crash course on how to do the basics in DP so I can compare.

    Interesting though to know that long time Logic guys like yourselves are now happy in DP. I really must check it out and probably fork out the upgrade to 5.01..

    Tom

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    @tom@aerovons.com said:

    ...but what confuses me about DP is how to manipulate waveforms onscreen. It just seems so cumbersome....it's like I click on the waveform and try to manipulate it in some way and it just stands there. I think you have to somehow make it "pop up" or something, I just need to get over that aspect of it and I'd probably be fine.


    Tom: are you trying to alter the original sample itself? Because there is much you can do in the Sequence Editor screen, which is where one enters various non-destructive modifications on audio files. In Logic, this is all done on the main Arrange window, but in DP this feature is housed apart in the Sequence Editor Window. (Both DP and Logic have seperate screens for editing waveforms directly.)

    To activate the particular edit feature you want, you will have to select it on the pulldown menu to the left of each track in the Sequence Editor. The default setting is called "Soundbites" which basically allows you to do such things as edge edit audio files, add fades, cut and splice. Change "Soundbites" to "Volume" and you can dot in your volume curves. A similar process applies for other control data as they are selected from the same menu. At least that part of it is very simple.

    In the Waveform Editor, there are "mini-menus" on the frame of the window which will in turn activate what features you want to implement. Because it's so easy in this window to permanently alter the original waveform file, more care has to be taken as a safety precaution to protect the original audio file. The Sequence Editor window is much more non destructive.

    With VI, I haven't really seen the need to use the Waveform Editor. It's much simpler to make a copy of the original file and then do the edits in the Sequence Editor window. The notion of re-editing VI samples goes beyond my understanding with the new format-- it's quite different from editing PE's ".wav" files and saving them as new samples/patches as part of the PE library. Getting edited VI sounds back into ".dat" format is well beyond my capabilities.

    BTW-- one DP5 user has solved the issue of funny MIDI starts and Bounce To Disk issues by disabling a feature called "Pre-fill file buffers for Quick Start Delay" in the Configure Studio Settings dialog. Seems to me that a lot of concerns over some quirks with DP5 are actually being sniffed out and snuffed out with some very simple solutions. Hope that offers some encouragement if you are considering adding DP to your setup.

  • It is good to hear reports about DP5 and the VI. I am using Logic heavily and recently DP5. If any of you have heard the 3rd VSL podcast that piece I did with Opus1,2 & Epic Horns (K2) would play back in real time with a matrix reverb at 256k buffer on my dual 1.42 G4 with 2gigs of ram.
    I converted the piece and loaded it into Logic 7.2.1. At the same buffer it wouldn't play back without lots of dropouts and halts.

    EDIT: 06/03 - Installed the K2.1.1 update and behold Logic barely breaks a sweat with "Return To Alandar". That means I can keep working in my more comfortable environment. [:)]

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    @tom@aerovons.com said:

    ...but what confuses me about DP is how to manipulate waveforms onscreen. It just seems so cumbersome....it's like I click on the waveform and try to manipulate it in some way and it just stands there. I think you have to somehow make it "pop up" or something, I just need to get over that aspect of it and I'd probably be fine.


    Tom: are you trying to alter the original sample itself? Because there is much you can do in the Sequence Editor screen, which is where one enters various non-destructive modifications on audio files. In Logic, this is all done on the main Arrange window, but in DP this feature is housed apart in the Sequence Editor Window. (Both DP and Logic have seperate screens for editing waveforms directly.)

    To activate the particular edit feature you want, you will have to select it on the pulldown menu to the left of each track in the Sequence Editor. The default setting is called "Soundbites" which basically allows you to do such things as edge edit audio files, add fades, cut and splice. Change "Soundbites" to "Volume" and you can dot in your volume curves. A similar process applies for other control data as they are selected from the same menu. At least that part of it is very simple.

    In the Waveform Editor, there are "mini-menus" on the frame of the window which will in turn activate what features you want to implement. Because it's so easy in this window to permanently alter the original waveform file, more care has to be taken as a safety precaution to protect the original audio file. The Sequence Editor window is much more non destructive.

    With VI, I haven't really seen the need to use the Waveform Editor. It's much simpler to make a copy of the original file and then do the edits in the Sequence Editor window. The notion of re-editing VI samples goes beyond my understanding with the new format-- it's quite different from editing PE's ".wav" files and saving them as new samples/patches as part of the PE library. Getting edited VI sounds back into ".dat" format is well beyond my capabilities.

    BTW-- one DP5 user has solved the issue of funny MIDI starts and Bounce To Disk issues by disabling a feature called "Pre-fill file buffers for Quick Start Delay" in the Configure Studio Settings dialog. Seems to me that a lot of concerns over some quirks with DP5 are actually being sniffed out and snuffed out with some very simple solutions. Hope that offers some encouragement if you are considering adding DP to your setup.

    JWL...thanks for the tips..yes, I was just talking about basic, non-destructive editing. Coming from Pro Tools, I've never really even understood the need for destructive editing. I have to get the basics of DP down ( used Performer for years, before it was digital!). Most of my audio editing is real basic, cleaning up false starts, copying and pasting, etc.

    The main thing I'd like to know is what the FASTEST way to work is using VI's. In Logic, when I'm ready to "render" a Midi track/Inst track, I use that "Export Track to Audio" function, etc. In DP, I'm not sure what I would do. Some kind of bounce to disk thing? I know Freezing won't help DP because it is REAL TIME, and I'll have to sit through the whole song each time.

    Any ideas appreciated. Also, any comments on how solid DP 5.01 is...re crashing, etc. I'm mainly using Vienna Instruments, but do use the usual other suspects from Spectrasonics, Autotune, SSL EQ etc.
    Fortunately I've farmed out the reverb to hardware, so the main demands will be from VSL....

    Thanks
    Tom

  • Hey Dragonwind,

    What's the K2.1.1 update?

  • I supposed this is a tired question, but reading the comments and looking at the DP website, i can't see if DP has a notation editor.
    Interested though, in the performance specs, and what seems a fairly positive view of this software.

    How does DP cope with post processing, and vid?


    Regards,


    Alex.