@svonkampen said:

dpcon:

Becuase it is a hassle and more importantly it is limiting. What If I want to play a simple octave of celli...where the bottom note is a non-trem PFP and the top note is a TREM PFP and underneath all of that I want to hold a cluster of celli flauts that slowly morphs/ into celli trills?SvK

I can understand and instance per divided part. I just haven't seen many 8 part divisi's in my day. But after all we are talking samples and anything goes really. As far being able to run a lot of VI's I too can only run a very few (either on a 3.4 ghz PC or Dual 2.7) so I'm with you on that. Hopefully there will be an improvement in this.

dpcon,

I'm not writing 8 part divisi's

But I like having a seperate VI for dynamics, legato, trem-trill dyn's, flauts, sord.....this allows me to have a legato line........layered with a pad, and also allows me to crossfade ifrom the leg line into whatever, instead of a "hard" keyswitch".

that is 6....i will re-evaluate my thinking and try to condense to 4 with more key-switching...

BUT...i shouldn't have too [;)]

SvK

@Another User said:

The Quad makes the dual 2.5 look sick in comparison.

Can you be more specific about that, Bruce? You mentioned the buffer in DP, but other than that? In what areas do you notice a big diff?

I haven't heard anyone else report this, so I'm intrigued.

Hi Nick. Like svk says above that it is no problem loading the VI's in a G5 with enough Ram. The real acid test is how well do they perform in real time. I have noticed that the Quad generally outperforms the 2.5 Dual by a factor of about 2:1 when it comes time to use 8 Altiverb 5's and tons of notes including harp sustains and keyboards needing a lot of polyphony, alongside the VI's..So on my system (2G5's) I am using the Dual 2.5 to host just the woodwinds and percussion. All the strings brass and keys + Altis run on the Quad. Also I have been experimenting with the Host Buffer Multiplier in DP 5. This is not the 512/256 regular buffer. It is something else. You can set it at 1,2,3, or 4. I had it at 1. But now I see a huge iimprovement when it is set at 2.

HI everybody,

I just got back from a discussion with our chief Audio Programmer at the video-game company I work for...(He is considered one of the very best in our business)


I explained the differences to him regarding the old EXS24 16bit VSL VERSUS the new VI instrument 24bit Lossless Compression system...

Here are his comments:

When playing back an uncompressed WAV file that is loaded into RAM the CPU takes no hit whatsoever.

When playing back a 24bit Lossless compression Audio file (it is 2to1 compression....meaning the 24 bit file only takes up 1/2 the space it would uncompressed) the computer takes quite a hit....He could not say how much, but it's there....Now factor in crossfades, stacking, each file needs to uncompress on the fly to play (you see what I'm saying), release samples...polyphony builds up quick (each file hitting the cpu)

So ........It stands to reason that if we were able to turn the compression OFF......We would need twice the RAM to load all this stuff BUT the CPU would be able to play WAY more VI instances.

SvK

I would rather have compression turned off.....and strap 2 to 4 G5s together.......and not have my CPUs crap out, when composing.....

SvK

@Another User said:

HERB,

Processor: G5, 2 x 2.5 GHz,
Ram: 4 GB
OS 10.4.2
Data storage: Firewire 800
Host application: Logic 7.1.1
Soundcard: RME HDSP MADI with 648 MADI Interface

Latency at 512 Samples (12ms) / 2.5 GB Ram usage
Maximum Vienna Instrument instances: 24 (CPU 90%)
Maximum Samples loaded: 45000
Maximum polyphony: 300 stereo voices / (CPU 70%)

Herb I can load 24 instances of VI easy.....BUT I can't play any of it multitimbrally without massive cutting out and stalling.....I'm not making this up and I really do know what I am doing.

The loading up is not the issue.


Any chance of you guys running these tests with current OSX?

10.4.2 is ancient 10.4.6 please

And current Logic 7.2 (7.1.1 is old now)


maybe something happened since Logic went over to universal binary....

thanx Wink

SvK

Hi,

I don´t have the G5 dual here at the moment but can grab it later today and run the same tests in 10.4.6 and Logic 7.2. However I don´t expect it to be that different.

Maya

MAYA,

please do, that would be great......

Is it possible that you tell us what sort of test this is?


thanx so much...

SvK

MAYA,

Here are some insights in to other MAC CPU related problems...

problem 1:

While in Logic 7.2, select a sustained VI string instrument. Now play the keyboard.....every once in a while the sound just "cuts off" (this is not a polyphony thing, as we are only sustaining 1 note....it happens in standalone as well......so not a L7 issue)


problem 2:

While in Logic 7.2, enable the record-switches of any 3 Leg String instruments...(so you are playing 3 patches of VI simultaneously).....now play an appregiated triad in Legato (just drum your fingers on the keys)......Everything starts to stutter and break-up.....Even with release samples turned off......Now intersestingly, when you record this appreggio and have the sequencer play it back, the stuttering is reduced (probably, because the sequencer can look ahead).

I am still certain that "Lossless compression " is really impacting the CPU performance....THIS IS A BIG ISSUE.........

Since when opening old-sessions created with VSL/EXS 24, and replacing all those instances with VI's (newlibrary) ....those sessions will NOT play...



Like I said, RAM is not the issue, everything loads...It's CPU performance that gives in.


LAST THING:

I understand that PC's have a 2 Gig RAM cap, as opposed to the possible 4 to 8 gig RAM on a MAC..........Something tells me that the lossless compression, was a sheme to get more sounds into the PC's at the xpense of CPU power, consequently MAC users now have to suffer the shortcomings of this compromise due to the PC's RAM limitations.....

I still belive that a "16bit-uncompressed" version of this Library would be a GOOD thing...for Layout purposes and composition....All these CPU issues would go away.....At this stage things are at a standstill.

Setup a bunch of servers, launch the batch processors, and dither down to 16bit. So we can enjoy this awesome achievement, instead of having to wait for technology to catch up with your product.

SvK

I think streaming 300 stereo voices with 70% CPU usage proofes that there should not be any issue with compression.
I'm no expert, but I'm quite sure that uncompressed 24bit data wouldn't allow this amout of voices, because of physical bottlenecks.

best
Herb

HERB,

All I am asking is that you perform the same test I layed out....

specifiacally appregiating 3Leg patches at the same time.......The sounds stutter.

SvK

HERB...

it would allow MORE


......i'm sending you an email

SvK

Our stresstests are exactly testing this issues.

One polyphony test where the amount of streaming voices (sustains) is tested.
And a second one where the amount of instances, each performing very fast simultaneous movement with performance legato instruments are tested.
So when we say we can perform 24 instances without glitches, than 24 performance legati instruments are running at maximum speed.

best
Herb

HERB,

svonkampen computer:

Dual 2GHZ with 4 Gig RAM
OS 10.4.6, Logic 7.2 (i/o buffer size 512....Process Buffer Range LARGE)
RAM Usage is 2.95 GIG
Metric Halo 2882 audio interface


I open 3 VI instances of Legato Strings.
I drum my fingers (legato style) on the keys

The sound stutters and the CPU meter in Logic goes RED.



SvK

My guess is that you've loaded too much into your "only" 4GB of RAM, SvK, and the plug-in went to virtual memory for the sample start buffers.

Nick...RAM usage 2.9 Gig

Exactly, 2.9GB and you only have 4GB installed. Please check the virtual memory setting as you load up Vienna Instruments - that will tell you whether my theory is correct.

Where is this virtual memory setting?

We are talking about the new VIs not EXS24 Right? Virtual memory settings don't exist with VIs



SvK

SVONKAMPEN,

1) Concerning the test with OS 10.4.6 and Logic 7.2, here are my results:

Processor: G5 Dual 2.5 GHz
Ram: 4 GB
OS 10.4.6
Data storage: Firewire 800
Host application: Logic 7.2
Soundcard: RME HDSP

Latency at 512 Samples (12ms) / (2.46 GB Ram usage)
Maximum Vienna Instrument instances: 23 (CPU load activity monitor 95%)
Maximum Samples loaded: 24.095
Maximum polyphony: 384 stereo voices


2) The RAM management in VI works differently from the EXS. Nevertheless the VI uses disk streaming technology like the EXS does.
I explained this in detail in an email that I send to you before.
However I would suggest to get more RAM in order to run 8 or more instances of the VI properly.

3) I can confirm that when playing 3 legato instruments (= 3 instances of VI) simultaneously I also encountered a problem (a few clicks), but the tracks played back perfectly after I recorded them. You will find my Logic file on my iDisk.
I will look into this and keep you updated.

Best,

Maya

Maya,

thanx for confirming the bug......yes, they do play back properely after they are recorded, but they need to play correctly while performing the part,

Thanx again [;)]

SvK

SvK, I mean virtual memory as shown in Activity Monitor, i.e. the system is using the hard disk because it's run out of RAM. Not EXS virtual memory.