VSL is good with honest answers, but I never did get a response on why something as simple as a USB key needs all that time.

Here's the same question in a different light: when I click on the License Control Center, I get a read-out of my licenses in about ten seconds. Why does it take two and a half minutes to perform the same USB query when I launch Logic?

Both processes say they're scanning the key for licenses. So why does a Logic / VI launch need so much more time to scan when Syncrosoft's own LLC does it in ten seconds?

Aye, these are questions for greater minds than mine.

let me step in here with some technical details (most of you will get bored about this though) ... USB is one of the worst protocols i've ever seen by design and additionally several *soups* have been cooked regarding the controllers.
there is USB 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1 - the last two are sloppily referred as USB 2 currently and eg. the first two generations of G5 had USB 2.0 only.
you probably also don't know there are up to 4 different currency levels allowed for USB, nothing about that to be found in 95% of manuals and descriptions

so there are 2 levels to take into consideration: the hardware level (how correct has a manufacturer converted the USB protocol for his hardware and taken care of backward compatibility) and the software level (how precise are the drivers for a specific or generic device written) - for both we find really much crap ....

do you remember the problem with firewire with OSX 10.3 where harddrives have been destroyed? same type of mess. same to be found currently with FW800 PCI-X and PCI-e cards not taking much care on the specification ....

we can duplicate a problematic situation with almost any USB 1.1 and 2.0 port and USB 2.1 hubs and this is not limited to the syncrosoft dongle ...

from what i've heard syncrosoft is working hard on a workaround to overcome this issues which are system immanent and we might have to collect information about bad behaving controllers/devices which sometimes even ignore the protocol specifications (eg. to gather more bandwidth as designated)

i know this is of no help, but intended to point out it doesn't make sense to simplify problems down to a *this or that is the worst crap* or something

christian

Christian...thanks for that detailed explanation!

But that is even more reason to puzzle at why VSL didn't go with iLOK.

For instance, Pro Tools is in virtually every major studio in the world. It uses iLOK. If iLOK was crashing as much as this SLC USB thing, there would be a HUGE outflow of complaints, because studios can't be messing around with constant crashes, etc. Why must we keep reinventing the wheel when you already have something out there that works?

Tom

Following the various Synchrosoft issues I'd certainly vote for the "switch to iLok" party.

Julian

tom, it is not about to re-invent a wheel. syncrosoft is a very reputable company known for reliable and stable drivers and software - and i'm sure steinberg didn't make their decision for syncrosoft just *bypassing*. i don't know why they decided to step to the 5.x.y.z version (possibly actually VSL was part of the decision) and possibly VSL is even part of the problem ... i really don't know.
on the other hand i'm sure you all know what is cracked and what not and i could tell you also numerous stories about iLok crashing other drivers - i don't want to.
for the records: our first idea and intention was to have even the software for the VI on the dongle (to allow an immediate start with vienna instruments) - this has become obsolete very quickly because USB is not reliable enough to allow garanteed bandwidth and latency for anything and no (protection-)device was/is available to meet the needs.
we'd like to have something like the XSkey (even they can break under several circumstances) and i'm sure we will get to this point again very soon.

on the side i'm looking for something like a *usb-sniffer* for both platforms to get at least some clue why it happens on some systems and not on others. the only system we have been able to reproduce the issue so far is a mirror door G4 (1.25) and the vienna key attached to a USB 2.1 hub.

we'll keep you updated and listening to your observations, but - please - keep constructive
christian

In all honesty, cm, I have to say that I've never experienced a single problem with any PACE protection *on Mac* in the decade and a half or maybe more I've been using it. That goes back to the floppy-based protection, C/R, iLok - not a single issue. And as a journalist who writes about this stuff, I've always had unrealistically vast combinations of software on my machines.

PC maybe different, of course.

That's not à propos the rest of this thread - I'm not arguing that you should switch to iLok, just reporting my experience.

Nick, have you ever had iLok and Syncrosoft on the same system in use at the same time? It would be useful to know, as I'm sure that I read that sometimes iLok was messing with Steinberg products on Mac.

DG

Yes I have. I have had problems with Syncrosoft dongles on one of my G5s just with some Steinberg programs - and none with VSL so far - but removing the iLok didn't solve them. One of the programs I simply couldn't get working (Scarbee Imperial Drums XL) for months mysteriously started working one time and still does. The problems have been very strange, because the same dongle will work with some programs and not others, and all the Syncrosoft dongles I have work fine on XP machines.

Syncrosoft was very helpful trying to work this out, and I don't want to sound nasty or accusative. It could be something to do with this particular machine, or with Syncrosoft, Steinberg, something else, or some combination of the above.

@Nick Batzdorf said:

Yes I have. I have had problems with Syncrosoft dongles on one of my G5s just with some Steinberg programs - and none with VSL so far - but removing the iLok didn't solve them. One of the programs I simply couldn't get working (Scarbee Imperial Drums XL) for months mysteriously started working one time and still does. The problems have been very strange, because the same dongle will work with some programs and not others, and all the Syncrosoft dongles I have work fine on XP machines.

Syncrosoft was very helpful trying to work this out, and I don't want to sound nasty or accusative. It could be something to do with this particular machine, or with Syncrosoft, Steinberg, something else, or some combination of the above.

OK, next thought. Were any of your Syncrosoft problems happening when the DAW was Synchrosoft protected e.g. Cubase/Nuendo? What I'm wondering is whether the iLok system interferes with Syncrosoft, vice versa or both. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but you are in a very good position to have tried various permutations over the years. I do know that people running Nuendo have often been fine with the dongle until Altiverb and the iLok entered the system.

DG

No, this applied to stand-alone and AU versions inside Logic.

I'm running both Ilok and Sunco now, and no problems... so far. [[;)]]

all of a sudden i get a "no licenses installed" when i start VI standalone though the key is plugged in properly, has all licenses installed on it etc.
the licenses for other vsti which ar on it run fine

this is all a little pain up the paying users a..

i have not half as much usb ports as i have dongles lying around here
some already broken as i constantly hit them with my feet if they are plugged into the front usb port of my G5 which is under the table.

don't get me wrong but i agree that copy protection sucks if it's a major
pain in the workflow, be it loading times or other problems.

what do i do now?

cm -- with all due respect, VSL has released to the public a sample library system that does not work. Plain and simple. It seems to me that VSL needs to do an about-face and quickly remedy this situation by going with a system that works. You have to expect that after spending the very high prices charged for this library, that people are going to be very frustrated with the myriad of problems we've had so far, and if some may be calling it "a piece of junk" or whatever then that's pretty much telling it like it is in my book. I'm sorry, but this library does not work. I have gone from being one of VSLs biggest supporters after having used it on many scores so far with great success (Pro Edition and Kontakt versions), but I'm completely discouraged about the current state of affairs. If the license recognition were the only thing, then I might continue to work with the library in hopes that that might be soon corrected, but add that to these extreme load times and the huge CPU hit, well I don't have any faith that these will be corrected any time soon. I just got back from a two week vacation to read here that people are still having the same problems.

If, as you say, USB as a protocol is difficult and problem-ridden, then why did you go with it? How about good old challenge and response like Spectrasonics. The East-West QLSOs system works great, and nobody's copying that library illegally.

I guess I'll just have to force myself to finally make this decison as to whether or not to keep the entire library, maybe repurchasing just part of the string library for now, so I can keep tabs on any improvements that might be made, but without having so much vested in a system that's not working for me and shouldn't have been released at all as is. I've been holding out in hopes that things would have been fixed by now.

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44542

best
Herb

garylionelli i won't go that far to say the product doesn't work completely.
I'm sure if you stick to the system requirements and give a proper bug report someone at vienna is willing to help you with your problems.

btw a reboot, which i seldomly do on the mac, solved the license problem for me