Hi all,

this is the first test series we have made, more results will be published, when the second run is through (AMD dual core, P4 double core, I´m trying to get a hold of the fastest machines I can find).

@Another User said:

What looks really worrying in the first instance is the max instances of VI achieved - 24 max. I have regularly used 100 EXS 24 instruments in a score now I know the VI's with their matrices reduce the requirement for channels. But in an orchestral line-up "Strings 5, Wind 7, Brass 6, Harp, Piano Percussion (4) and now we've run out before we think solo's, choirs, and all the other instruments often used.

In Logic on a mac if you run out of voices, RAM or CPU you can always freeze the most important thing you can complete the largest orchestrations on one computer.

If there is really a score limit of 24 staves (24 instruments) this could be an issue.

Let's hope the mac performances are a little more revealing when they are published.

Julian, you can make use of RAM Optimize to stay on the MIDI level, when your RAM reaches the limits. We would like to see the perfect orchestration computer that never runs out of RAM ourselves...

I can´t wait to have the final figures for MAC as well, I just really want to make sure that everything is doublechecked, so that you know what it really looks like....

Thanks for your input, everybody!

Best wishes, Paul

@Another User said:

Julian, you can make use of RAM Optimize to stay on the MIDI level, when your RAM reaches the limits. We would like to see the perfect orchestration computer that never runs out of RAM ourselves...

I can´t wait to have the final figures for MAC as well, I just really want to make sure that everything is doublechecked, so that you know what it really looks like....

Thanks for your input, everybody!

Best wishes, Paul

Hi Paul,

The inportant number for me is instances of VI - how many will I be able to run. RAM or CPU is actually less of an issue as with freezing or RAM optomization there are ways round this. Where only 24 VI instances would be a problem would be in only having 24 arrange tracks available for Logic automation - only having the equivalent of 24 staves in a score - what happens when you have inserted the 24th
VI and you still need 2 or 3 extra instruments. With the current VSL library this is not an issue - freeze a track or two and insert more EXS 24's but if you reach the instances limit with VI there is nowhere else to go particularly as VI's won't run as a node.

I admit it's early days and we must give you guys time to do your tests and perhaps optomize the software but one question I would like to ask is what is the maximum number of VI's that can be inserted on a top flight PC with very low instrument content (i.e. each VI only has a minimal instrument/sample load)

thanks

Julian

@Another User said:

However, I'm slightly disappointed that the results weren't better using FX-Teleport. In theory every instance should have a limit of 2Gb, therefore one should be able to load in excess of 3Gb on a machine that has 4Gb RAM. Did you test for this, or were your tests limited to 2Gb machines?

DG, I will look into that, more to come....


Hi Paul, I didn't mean to hassle you, it's just that there are so many options, and in this period of calm before the storm I want to prepare as much as possible before D-Day (talk about mixed metaphors [8-)] ).

The other thing to be aware of is that Cubase SX3 (and Nuendo) are both Large Address Aware, so that with the 3gig switch (I think) one can access up to about 2.7Gb RAM. It would be interesting to see how the number of samples in this instance stacks up to the figures quoted for MAC. I think that this will eventually be helpful to users, as at the moment with no MAC figures about performance we don't really know. For example, number of instances might be more important than RAM use to some people; maximum number of samples might be of more interest to others. I think that the polyphony looks OK, but obviously it depends on how VI deals with multi-layer cross-faded instruments. The only time I get close in GS is when I have multiple keyboard instruments running, and there ain't non of them in VI [:D]

DG

Vienna Instruments run all the articulations you need for an instrument in one player. Therefore I assume "instruments" really means *instruments* - i.e. violins, violas, and oboes = 3 instruments.

So when you say 20 - 24 instruments, you're talking about the equivalent of five billion programs.

Ja?

@julian said:

What looks really worrying in the first instance is the max instances of VI achieved - 24 max. I have regularly used 100 EXS 24 instruments in a score now I know the VI's with their matrices reduce the requirement for channels. But in an orchestral line-up"
Strings 5, Wind 7, Brass 6, Harp, Piano Percussion (4) and now we've run out before we think solo's, choirs, and all the other instruments often used.

In Logic on a mac if you run out of voices, RAM or CPU you can always freeze the most important thing you can complete the largest orchestrations on one computer.

If there is really a score limit of 24 staves (24 instruments) this could be an issue.

Let's hope the mac performances are a little more revealing when they are published.

Julian

Julian, with all respect, I feel your comparison at this date is unfair. THe PC is not the Mac. Today, from my seat, with all you can do, 24 instances on a single PC machine looks impressive, especially with the simple specs needed to run VI

I also point out, that the 64-bit systems on the PC are not yet feasible, especially in price, and probably won't be for half a year or more. WIth what I'm reading, with three smaller dedicated PCs you can set up one "whoppe"r of an orchestra!

PA

I really want to thank Herb, Paul, Chris and Company for taking the time to do these tests and for taking the time to post them. This is exceptional. No other company has ever done this and for one, I really appreciate your efforts. That you went and tested a PII and a PII is also fantastic given the number of composers who have those machines because of GS2.54, and now find that they can still get some use out of those systems.

This to me is corporate responsibility in action.

On the P4s, it would be great to know if you were using the P4 with HT or the dual core, and the motherboard type (915, 925, etc).

Again, many, many thanks.

PA

@Nick Batzdorf said:

So when you say 20 - 24 instruments, you're talking about the equivalent of five billion programs.

Ja?

And two bratworsts with a Diet Coke.

@Peter Alexander said:

I really want to thank Herb, Paul, Chris and Company for taking the time to do these tests and for taking the time to post them. This is exceptional. No other company has ever done this and for one, I really appreciate your efforts. That you went and tested a PII and a PII is also fantastic given the number of composers who have those machines because of GS2.54, and now find that they can still get some use out of those systems.

This to me is corporate responsibility in action.

PA

I couldn't have said it better myself.

DG

Thanks, and I am in the middle of further tests...

I´m actually not that much of a techie to answer all specific computer questions, but I will look into it and we will test all configurations within our reach.

As far as the dual cores are concerned, Christian Marin has already posted on the first page of this thread and I don´t really have anything to add...

To my knowledge we can adress up to 1.5 - 1.7 GB of RAM, and all suggestions here on the forum seem rather theoretical to me... If anyone has experience with adressing more than 1.7 GB of RAM with a streaming sampler on a PC, please share your infos.

Best, Paul

@Paul said:

To my knowledge we can adress up to 1.5 - 1.7 GB of RAM, and all suggestions here on the forum seem rather theoretical to me... If anyone has experience with adressing more than 1.7 GB of RAM with a streaming sampler on a PC, please share your infos.

Best, Paul

According to folks on the Nuendo Forum N3 (and I suppose) SX3 can address up to 2.7Gb RAM. Whether or not this translates to more streaming I don't know, but would like to find out before buying more RAM. Similarly for the FX-Teleport machines.

DG

Hi, Paul

Good numbers! I'm looking forward to receive the VI.
Are you having any test with XP 64-bit? I hope that it will solve the RAM-problem [8-)]

Best
Martin

Hi,

I couldn´t load more into my RAM in either one of the SX 3 machines, and to my knowledge Nuendo is built on the same basic system, but I´ll give it a shot... would really surprise me though.

XP64, we haven´t tested on a 64 bit machine yet, I will as soon as I get my hands on one. But the Vienna Instruments are not yet optimized for 64 bit systems yet, and as I understand it, you only benefit from 64bit technology, if every part of the system is optimized, from the chip to the harddrives, the drivers and applications....

I will keep you up to date.

Best, Paul

@Paul said:

Hi,

I couldn´t load more into my RAM in either one of the SX 3 machines, and to my knowledge Nuendo is built on the same basic system, but I´ll give it a shot... would really surprise me though.

Best, Paul

Paul, I don't know any more than you do, but you might like to check out this:

http://forum.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=8186

DG

@Paul said:

Hi,

I couldn´t load more into my RAM in either one of the SX 3 machines, and to my knowledge Nuendo is built on the same basic system, but I´ll give it a shot... would really surprise me though.

XP64, we haven´t tested on a 64 bit machine yet, I will as soon as I get my hands on one. But the Vienna Instruments are not yet optimized for 64 bit systems yet, and as I understand it, you only benefit from 64bit technology, if every part of the system is optimized, from the chip to the harddrives, the drivers and applications....

I will keep you up to date.

Best, Paul

I priced out a 64bit PC system and the price was so high, I went to the Mac for sequencing with Logic. 64-bit is really 9 months to ayear or more away by the time all the software is tweaked.

@Another User said:

Do you think it will be possible to let this "test song" available for the end user ? Then we could post our results here.

Stéphane, you don´t want to listen to it, believe me, MIDI notes all over the place [H]. Purpose was to really stress the Vienna Instruments....


[:D]

IMHO It doesn't matter. The only important thing is that we could easily hear a drop or click.

@Paul said:

XP64, we haven´t tested on a 64 bit machine yet, I will as soon as I get my hands on one. But the Vienna Instruments are not yet optimized for 64 bit systems yet, and as I understand it, you only benefit from 64bit technology, if every part of the system is optimized, from the chip to the harddrives, the drivers and applications....

I will keep you up to date.

Best, Paul

I think you are right, but as I read on the homepage of microsoft, you still get the benefit of the RAM-management. It would be excellent to get a test on a 4 Gb RAM xp64 computer, to see if you can load more than 2 Gb of samples.

Best, Martin

@Paul said:

Thanks, and I am in the middle of further tests...

I´m actually not that much of a techie to answer all specific computer questions, but I will look into it and we will test all configurations within our reach.

As far as the dual cores are concerned, Christian Marin has already posted on the first page of this thread and I don´t really have anything to add...

To my knowledge we can adress up to 1.5 - 1.7 GB of RAM, and all suggestions here on the forum seem rather theoretical to me... If anyone has experience with adressing more than 1.7 GB of RAM with a streaming sampler on a PC, please share your infos.

Best, Paul

Paul, I echo Peter's appreciation, and observations about coporate responsibility.

And i think it's good you're not a techie, as a lot of us are the same. It gives us a practical layman's view of how everthing works without trying to translate IT speak.

Regards,

Alex.

@Paul said:

... I understand it, you only benefit from 64bit technology, if every part of the system is optimized.....

..... It would be excellent to get a test on a 4 Gb RAM xp64 computer, to see if you can load more than 2 Gb of samples......

Best, Martin


With 64 bit systems and audio , it is the following:
"Optimization" is not the real word. Any application needs to be re-designed and re-compiled, othwise, it just runs in 32-bit mode. No changes, neither to memory management nor to audio and the respective problems.

At the beginning, you need to have the new Windows 64 bit (Longhorn) which is not yet publically available, only as specific OEM or MSN Developer, and this version is time limited.

If you want to have true advantage, first your audio card needs to have 64-bit ability and new 64-bit drivers. The only one I know are M-audio (Delta etc) , which have a track record of being up to date with any technology.

Then, your audio application needs to be able to handle these 64 bit drivers. This is true only for Nuendo in a 64-bit Beta-Version.

Everything in the chain needs to be 64 bit, i.e. any VSTi and, VI.
It is not too difficult to port to 64 bit, it is more of a little tedious work (i.e. make all pointers and memory handlers and numbers 64bit etc.

And then, and only then, you are able to have all the advantages of 64 bit (Memory size etc). Looks like we are a long timeline away before 64 bit becomes mainstream.

I tested 64bit with Nuendo and Delta, and it was cool as a glimpse into the 64 bit world. Really fast, that stuff. But I gave up, because everything else old was making backward compatibility problems). You could not use anything that had 32-bit drivers only. And then, Longhorn Beta expired anyway..

Just activating 'Notify me when a reply is posted'

Paul,

Are you going to have results for the Quad core?