@Thor said:

It's too bad that now all the samples are unaccesible in a plug in. I would say 50% of VSL Instruments in EXS that I constantly use, I have customized to fit my working style.............................................
There must be some tweakers in this forum...

I am a tweaker, I confess.
I agree to what you're saying.
There are others that do not understand or like this point of view,
and of course this o.k. for them.
Someone (cwillsher?) even asked me to make my
own library and let all others enjoy their VI in peace.. [;)]
Ha! Nice!

I think the combination of ingenious preconfiguration, ingenious
articulation programming AND the option to override both
and tweaking would be a real killer.
Otherwise we have what was called a ROMpler in the eighties
or nineties... a very sophisticated and ingenious one, but still
a preset playing machine.

Only a demo version could convince me that I'm wrong, I suppose.
I don't trust too much in 'testimonies from other users', as s.o. from VSL
mentioned, when another person asked for a demo.

If you are interested, look here:
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6801">http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6801

boulaki

Boulaki, I don't know what VSL libraries you are already using, I only notice you have only been a member since yesterday and your posts so far show little understanding of how much these new VIs will be a leap forward in productivity (and stress relief) for existing users.

As stated before, I see no reason why you can't adjust even the pitch of individual notes if it's really necessary. Even if you have to record the output and adjust it in your DAW, or assign those notes an alternative articulation it IS possible and would be no more hassle than it is now. But these are really minor niggles compared to the new potential being offered and if any individual samples purchased can be proved to be 'dodgy' for tuning or noise, then the pressure would very much be on VSL to fix them.

Regards

Colin

@cwillsher said:

I only notice you have only been a member since yesterday and your posts so far show little understanding of how much these new VIs will be a leap forward in productivity (and stress relief) for existing users.

Colin,
what I say is based on the informations that were provided so far.
I have the same informations as most others... very few.
Do you have more?

That's why I would like to see a demo version of the player software.
This is what nearly every software manufacturer offers: a demo version.
And VI is an application, not a library, where a mp3- demo might be
sufficient.

Your workflow seems to be very different from mine, that's why you don't seem to
understand what I want.
Proposing to open a new instance of VI for every single tweak is a proof for that.
THIS is moving backwards (to quote your words from another post), not my wish
to keep control over the samples.

We should not continue this as long as we come from so much differing
workflows and attitudes. Your proposals simply don't cut.. [;)]
not to mention your advice to make my own library, which in my eyes
is BS, sorry to sound harsh here.

Since when I'm a member of this forum has nothing to do with this subject.
I subscribe to a forum when I have something to say, not months before..
And the new release of VI is a subject I had to ask questions about.
It attracts many new members to the forum, I am sure.

So far my questions have been answered; it is not necessary that you doubt the
usefulness of my questions or my kind of workflow that makes editing
and tweaking necessary.
You seem to have a different one and that is o.k. for me.

boulaki

@cwillsher said:

Boulaki, I don't know what VSL libraries you are already using, I only notice you have only been a member since yesterday and your posts so far show little understanding of how much these new VIs will be a leap forward in productivity (and stress relief) for existing users.

As stated before, I see no reason why you can't adjust even the pitch of individual notes if it's really necessary. Even if you have to record the output and adjust it in your DAW, or assign those notes an alternative articulation it IS possible and would be no more hassle than it is now. But these are really minor niggles compared to the new potential being offered and if any individual samples purchased can be proved to be 'dodgy' for tuning or noise, then the pressure would very much be on VSL to fix them.

Regards

Colin

CWilsher.. I have been a VSL user from the first day on. Obviously, you are a preset player who doesn't tweak his samples much or at all (which is fine - totally okay). Everybody that I know in this industry though tweaks their stuff - not only samples but sounds in general...
And when I am standing in front of a real Orchestra I tweak that too...hehe
I belong to the "Tweakhead anonymous" group and there are tons of members...

You suggested that Boulaki doesn't know what a leap this will be...well, do you ?? Have you used it ?
You obviously don't know about the power of REAL great programming. For example a friend of mine who is also a composer/tweaker made a few patches out of the 0sus vlns that are mind boggling and it makes the entire library sound soo much better and soo much more usable - He reedited the entire patch - mixed in some layers from another patch and spend days on perfecting it - the result : An amazing Vln Sus patch with xfades, stac leg control...awesome !!
This is what I am talking about when I say I like to tweak...another example..I don't like the slightly harsh sound of the strings, so I have made a few patches that are layers of strings and strongly reverbed flutes (eq'ed), you don't hear the flutes but they add a layer of warmth...and its all in one EXS patch, very useful.

I also agree on Boulaki's "don't trust another users opinion" - its like with the movies...you gotta watch it yourself.


To tweak or not to tweak ....

[H]

Damn ! I even tweaked my post from above a second ago....

@Thor said:

Damn ! I even tweaked my post from above a second ago....

One or two sessions with the "Tweakhead Anonymous" and you will feel
much better..[;)]

boulaki

@Another User said:

Since when I'm a member of this forum has nothing to do with this subject.

On the contrary, I believe previous experience of VSL is what makes this new venture so valuable. Tell me about your workflow, what libraries you are using and are happy with, help me to understand, then we can talk properly.

Incidentally, this is the first, let's call it 'minor disagreement', I've had over a forum. It's not something I enjoy and if you'd rather leave it, then fine. But as I said at the top, I would rather understand your problem, as I believe there are probably realistic ways around them.

Regards

Colin[/quote]

@Thor said:

He reedited the entire patch - mixed in some layers from another patch and spend days on perfecting it - the result : An amazing Vln Sus patch with xfades, stac leg control...awesome !!

I totally agree that we need a Demo, but the videos are already indicating that your friend could probably achieve a very similar result in a few hours with the new software. It appears you will be able to combine different instruments in one patch, xFade, adjust attacks & releases, add filters, delay sample start times and offset patches against each other etc.

It would be churlish of you to assume I don't know what I'm doing in the studio.

Anyway, it's all pretty speculative isn't it? We'll see in due course...

Colin

@cwillsher said:

It would be churlish of you to assume I don't know what I'm doing in the studio.

Colin

I don't think that you don't know what you are doing - don't put words in my mouth...tweaking has nothing to do with being a great composer. You just aren't a tweakhead, its obvious. And you don't have to be. That's why you think the plug in will suffice...hey, maybe it will, then I shut up...I am very skeptical though... we need a demo...

best,

t

@Thor said:

Damn ! I even tweaked my post from above a second ago....

One or two sessions with the "Tweakhead Anonymous" and you will feel
much better..[;)]

boulaki



...Yes,...I am going tonight...I skipped for a while and now that VSL is coming out as a plug in - I am freaking out !!! [8-)]

@cwillsher said:

Incidentally, this is the first, let's call it 'minor disagreement', I've had over a forum.

Colin,

this little disagreement results from a difference in workflow and therefore in expectations
regarding what a sampler has to deliver and offer.
It may be your first one, but is not mine...
Unfortunately our little conversation is stretched over two independent threads, what makes
things a little less practical, similiar to your proposal to open
a further instance of VI for every adjustment or tweak.

As Thor mentioned, there are composers who tweak every aspect of the musical
performance, as they would with real players, too, and there are others, who
tend to use presets, slightly modifying them, and being content this way.
Both approaches are o.k. and just a matter of personal preference, I think.
It seems, you belong to the second group, and Thor and me to the first.
That's all.

Oh, you asked, what libraries I use.
I have a Sequential Prophet 2002 and 4 double density floppy disks with wonderful string- samples,
copied from the Roland S 50 (in the analogue domain of course).
I am tweaking so much because getting a good orchestra sound out of 4 MB RAM is
not possible without a little fiddling around ...
Just kidding....

Let's wait for a demo or a downloadable manual for the VI sample player...
we will all have more information then.

Best regards

boulaki