"Harsh"?

[jbm]

Well, the title says it all... what is "harsh"?

J.

[William]

I love those - just what is needed. You hear this all the time in orchestra but never before in samples. In other words more attack for any given attack.

[plowman]

I assume it's a sound like the opening chords of "Danse macabre" by Saint-Saens. That passage is often used to described the intentional retuning of strings (scordatura), but its grating, aggressive sustain is probably similar to "harsh." I imagine a solo string sound like this may lend more sinew to a double forte string ensemble with the right mix, particularly a downstroke.

[William]

DG could tell you more about this, but it is not a specific bowing, just a way of attacking which is more grating and can be used either in f or softer dynamics. So the "harsh" name is an informal designation of a variation normally not recorded. A variation of a variation of attack. Another reason why this sample library is so great - variations upon variations.

Is that about right , DG? As someone who has sat behind the strings in many orchestral rehearsals and performances, I've heard some VERY harsh things from them. A lot harsher than these samples, come to think of it... [[;)]]

[hermitage59]

@William said:

DG could tell you more about this, but it is not a specific bowing, just a way of attacking which is more grating and can be used either in f or softer dynamics. So the "harsh" name is an informal designation of a variation normally not recorded. A variation of a variation of attack. Another reason why this sample library is so great - variations upon variations.

Is that about right , DG? As someone who has sat behind the strings in many orchestral rehearsals and performances, I've heard some VERY harsh things from them. A lot harsher than these samples, come to think of it... [[;)]]

Yes Bill me too. And i've heard a mighty clatter from cellos as they attempt to saw their way through the instrument! The gypsy violin got me as well. As you know i'm writing music of russia, the caucasus's. balkans, and old persian empire at the moment, so the gypsy violin would come in very useful. It's so close in sound as to be almost indistinguishable.
God, when i think how many times, and how much effort i put in trying to get string samples to sound like this, just to please a customer who wanted music from his or her 'homeland.'

Regards,

Alex.

[DG]

@William said:

DG could tell you more about this, but it is not a specific bowing, just a way of attacking which is more grating and can be used either in f or softer dynamics. So the "harsh" name is an informal designation of a variation normally not recorded. A variation of a variation of attack. Another reason why this sample library is so great - variations upon variations.

Is that about right , DG? As someone who has sat behind the strings in many orchestral rehearsals and performances, I've heard some VERY harsh things from them. A lot harsher than these samples, come to think of it... [[;)]]

Yes, broadly speaking you are correct. There are two main ways to play harshly; more bow pressure or closer to the bridge (or a combination). Until I hear the samples I can't say what method might have been used, but there are many times when a bit of extra bite is required, and this sort of sound can be very handy. If the harshness is only required at the start of the note, you just release the pressure a tad as the note progresses.

I often say to violinists that orchestral players should not always try to make the same sounds as soloists, because the amount of "hack" that is necessary in ensemble playing is much higher than in solo playing.

DG