@mpower88 said:

I know apple are a big corp too but I just don't like the mentality after seeing the number 2 of MS on stage a couple of years ago cahorting around screaming about their bottom line so over zealously and practically maniacally until he had to lean on his mic stand to prevent himself for having a heart attack it took him a full five minutes to get his breath back and he really looked visibly unwell though he still tried to go "yeaH' YEAH" a few more unwise times. I thought "I don't want to buy from a company that's run by someone like that". I wish I had the quicktime so I could give you a link it was almost funny if it wasn't just too much trajedy all at once. I felt sorry for the guy.
Cheers,
Miklos.

Hmmmm. I can see that you're a lot more complicated than I first suspected Miklos.

[:D]

@mpower88 said:

I've had my G5 running for 3 days straight day and night encoding H264 quicktimes with final cut pro at night and running Logic/VSL maxed out during the day without a reboot and no crashes (ok logic crashed once but I'd saved). Honest question: can you do that these days with a PC (I'm really asking I don't know).

Wow what an excellent time waster and avoidance of work this has been! thanks! I feel refreshed and ready for more music!

Cheers,
Miklos.

Oh, don't think that I like MS any more than you do. However, as Bill Gates also owns a large portion of Apple there doesn't seem to be any choice. I'm afraid that I'm one of those people who thinks of a pooter as a tool and once Nuendo is open I couldn't give a rats arse what OS I am running [:D]

As far as crashes, my DAW has yet to do so (been running it for about 15 months now), my laptop is fine as long as I don't run the updated K2 and my GS machines only ever crashed when I updated the art files and didn't change the temp directory. Now I've changed this I can comfortably say that they don't crash, although I've only been running them for 6 months.

Oh, and FYO this discussion doesn't come under the heading of time wasting, it's professional, investigative development. That way I feel justified in paying myself double time for a Sunday [:D]

DG

Speed is important,obviously,and I'm not sure where all these claims of PC (or Mac,for that matter) superiority in that area come from originally.Figures can be coveniently massaged to mean something else for people with agendas.To me,it's about the operating system,and in that area there is no competition,in my not-so-humble opinion.The Apple OS is way ahead of Windows.I know several seasoned "PC people" (God,it's starting to sound racist [:)] ) ,who have been involved with Windows in the capacity of programming,but also know about the Mac OS,and they are in a distinctly better position to judge the merits of of both systems,than most of the computers-users on the everyday forums.No disrespect intended,there, but it's a given.These people are saying that Windows is wasteful,inelegant and downright obtuse (yeah,like we didn't already know that);not to mention a poor imitation of Mac OS:has anyone seen the look and feature "innovations" of the long-awaited Greenhorn,sorry,Longhorn.

If I may,here's a simple example from my own experience,but is typical of many such instances (I own Mac and PC BTW).I recently purchased a multimedia player,and,no it wasn't an i-pod.It was an i-(damn that lower case ,self-important,ubiquitous letter)river.An i-river.It plays movies,has a radio and a built in microphone and a very large TFT screen.In short,for me,it's better than any i-pod currently available.It came with a PC-only install CD, and a substantial section in the manual given over to explaining its operation with a PC,and and equally substantial trouble-shooting section.You know the kind of Windows things:if you plug in such and such a USB device,and it conflicts with this,then do that,which then means you find some other device won't work,because one hasn't done this to counteract the fact that you didn't something else,which totally alarmed the Windows architecture.Shall I go on? No.I didn't think so.

Anyway,I plug this player straight in to one of my Macs (this the other thing:it works on ALL of them in a consistent and predictable fashion) and it's mounted as a USB device within ten seconds.No fuss,no conflicts,no install CD.And it's doing what it's supposed to be doing on the PC,while you're still rummaging around in the "Device Manager" (ha,that's a laugh).The weird thing is,this player has a Windows-based,FAT 32 (IBM PC) OS,yet it works quicker with my Macs.

I won't bore everyone (probably have already) with the many tales of woe from acquaintances running the Windows OS.Actually I 've been told that I'm lucky in that respect,since I've never had a major crash,requiring complete reinstallation every couple of months or so (which what some people do!), often due to running the internet at the same time as other apps..No.But it's trashed my hard drive(which,incidentally,I subsequently put in a Mac and got it to work (the PC didn't want to know),and blew up its power supply.I tolerate the PC,simply to run Gigastudio,which is fine.

Another thing: the Mac OS is beautiful.The Windows OS is quite grotesque.There's no room for ugliness in my life,particularly when I'm staring at screens for hours,day after day.As soon as Gigastudio is up and running the screen goes OFF.

Dell are not desperate to be able to sell the Mac OS on its PC's fot nothing.The i-pod has opened a lot of younger peoples' eyes the Mac OS.People who are now looking a the Mac Minis and seeing how a proper operating system works. Here endeth the lesson.Well,it IS a Sunday.

BTW: isn't the VSL library great?!
[[;)]]

Re ugliness: I'm with you on that but I didn't want to go and say it...

I was one of those people who reinstalled windows on a monthly basis.

I use my mac to browse web sites download emails upload ftps all while I'm playing my nearly maxed out logic tracks in the background never had to reinstall, this is the same installation from V10.1 of the operating system now on 10.4, although your record of no crashes I cannot claim to have been so lucky, logic does crash on me from time to time but then again I'm running old plug in's from Waves that it warns me not to use on start up so who I am to complain about that. [8-)] (waves won't support 10.4 unless you $pay$).

I am happy that Mac is the under dog I think it's for that reason that the Mac OS has become so good, they've said, ok if we're going to survive here, we're going to HAVE to be better. So it's great for me that most people use PC's especially so since Virus programmers target their mass audience, and leave mac users alone. No viruses on OSX YET! hooray. Apple is also less hated - not than PC's than MS so less of a virus target.

There should be a very strong law against bill gates owning apple, not because it's a monopoly, but because it's just indecent, and immoral for him to be a part of it! [*-)] there should be a committe against it, a human rights commission into the matter, and some other things. I would prefer if his money were in genetically modified cow toe nail powder for babies milk that would be much more suitable for a person of his stature at least we could identify that as an obvious source of maliciousness with or without his involvement and avoid it.

sorry did I go overboard? Actually I really like the guy [[:|]] sure in fact I asked him to baby sit for me just last week , he had an engagement but really, a regular uncle charlie and all that [*-)]

quite a balanced character I heard [8-)]

ok I'm just being silly. [[;)]]

@mpower88 said:

Re ugliness: I'm with you on that but I didn't want to go and say it...

Why not? You said just about everything else.

[:D] [:D]

and ah... VSL is SUPER DUPER

Although I say that in jest because I have been guilty of wasing forum space being rediculous and talking about anything BUT VSL issues (althought in minor ways indirectly related) actually, I really DO think that, VSL IS super duper, wonderful, and I love it. That part isn't silly. [:D]

@strawinsky said:

Speed is important,obviously,and I'm not sure where all these claims of PC (or Mac,for that matter) superiority in that area come from originally.Figures can be coveniently massaged to mean something else for people with agendas.To me,it's about the operating system,and in that area there is no competition,in my not-so-humble opinion.The Apple OS is way ahead of Windows.I know several seasoned "PC people" (God,it's starting to sound racist [:)] ) ,who have been involved with Windows in the capacity of programming,but also know about the Mac OS,and they are in a distinctly better position to judge the merits of of both systems,than most of the computers-users on the everyday forums.No disrespect intended,there, but it's a given.These people are saying that Windows is wasteful,inelegant and downright obtuse (yeah,like we didn't already know that);not to mention a poor imitation of Mac OS:has anyone seen the look and feature "innovations" of the long-awaited Greenhorn,sorry,Longhorn.

[[[;)]]]

Just when we were having such a civilised discussion [[[;)]]]

1) If you talk to the same unnamed sources who agreed that XP was a "wasteful operating system" (which I happen to agree with) then I'm sure that they will back up my view on the relative speeds of Mac and PC. However, all you need to do is test any cross-platform apps and you will see. I can't comment on Longhorn until it is a commercial product and until I've used it.

2) I would assume that anything that starts with"i" is Mac based so its no wonder that it works on a Mac.

3) Mac OS being beautiful is your opinion. I don't find XP (I run in Classic) grotesque and I find OSX puerile and invasive. When I'm working I am not even aware of the operating system, so even if it was ugly I'm more interested in the GUI of my sequencer or notation program.

Unfortunately we are always hearing about how bad Windows is, but I've sat in many sessions where the Mac, crashed, needed to be re-started, trashing prefs etc. We all have scare stories about computers; the time my Mac erased the whole of a film score the day before the mixing session. The bottom line is that whichever platform has given the most trouble is the one we don't like. I'm glad that you are in love with your Mac; I save that for people, not machines [8-)]

DG

@mpower88 said:

and ah... VSL is SUPER DUPER

Although I say that in jest because I have been guilty of wasing forum space being rediculous and talking about anything BUT VSL issues (althought in minor ways indirectly related) actually, I really DO think that, VSL IS super duper, wonderful, and I love it. That part isn't silly. [:D]

With you on that, for sure...

DG

DG, I think we are all in agreement on the whole it is what it is, not to get Zen on this topic but it all about balances out really doesn't it so who cares. On with the show (writing music).

Miklos.

Well I can't contribute much on that...but I can just say that I used Mac G5 in the last 2 years and I LOVED IT, no problems except occasional RAM problem, but that could be normal in our case. I'm not hesitating in getting another Mac now, I hope they'll have the dual core with Mac, and soon! And this time I will get 3 year warrantee for sure. (What happens after that? Oh yeh, your computer is worth the same as your chair.)

Miklos,

I agree with you, seeing it was our 1st feature film and 1st time working this way (computers...) we did not look at that. But now I'm certainly not going to make the same mistake, especially now that I'm on my own.

Guy

ps How did all these posts get in while I was sleeping? [[;)]]

Hi,DG....

1.Macs are faster for certain processes and PC for others.I'm not bothering to name people: they'd almost certainly be uknown to yourself,as they're not of any professional consequence to this thread.They are professional,though,and are qualified to comment as such.

2.Ummm,is that a joke? There are electric kettles (to name but one domestic appliance) out there now with the irritating i prefix.

3.Each to his own (poor) taste.(Joke). Personally,I wouldn't confuse peurilty with simplicity,without qualification.



Wholesale erasure is almost certainly down to user error,due to pressing an inappropriate button:but,many people would be reluctant to own up to that,especially if their job was on the line.

Where did I say I was in love with my Mac? Nowhere,actually, though it is perfectly reasonable to love something like a pet (that's not a person)or something inanimate,like a work of art. Children love toys.I think it would be odd NOT to love inamimate things.The Mac.It's a neccessary evil,which I prefer to the PC Windows-based can of worms. I admire its purity (sorry Ridley). Is Slo Tools,as you so drolly put it, a disparagement? I think it might be.

One thing,for certain:I'm very pleased to learn that your platform of choice is behaving. It's no joke being at the mercy of the machine.

@strawinsky said:

One thing,for certain:I'm very pleased to learn that your platform of choice is behaving. It's no joke being at the mercy of the machine.

If you're pleased, then I'm pleased [:)] All I was interested in was making sure that people who read these threads see some sort of balance regarding PC and Mac. I use whatever tool is better for my purpose; in the end I don't care what it is called, who makes it or what colour it is.

As far as Protools is concerned (see I do know the real name), I suppose that I do have a bee in my bonnet, having been advised to use it in the past, and lived to regret it. A case of people assuming that well known brandnames are always superior.

DG

Absolutely.I'm not bothered in the slightest by the impending Intel Macs.In fact I believe they will be even better.

AHEM.... a friend has posted me this link at my request yes you guessed it (or did you?) it is the number 2 at microsoft, DISREGARDING the principle of dignity.

Check out how he says "Give it up for me"
and also notice the sweat under the arms kind of add's to things.

Now, I'm not badmouthing MS here (opinions aside), so please don't censor me moderators, this is simply a link to a clip that shows him at his keynote, unedited, HE is the star here, not anybody else and I ain't saying another word, because there are NO WORDS for this! oh and I can't help the filename not my doing.

http://users.pandora.be/bonte/forumafbeeldingen/dancemonkeyboy.mpg

I am so happy he found the link, but then, it's so bad, I forgot how bad, and actually I feel terrible.

[[:|]] [:O]ops: [:'(]

That was enough to convert me forever, and I DO care who makes the tools I use, I don't want Robert Mugabe shoes, or Osama eye glasses. If you think my comparisons are extreme then look at the video behaviour, that's a whole other kind of extreme!

@mpower88 said:

AHEM.... a friend has posted me this link at my request yes you guessed it (or did you?) it is the number 2 at microsoft, DISREGARDING the principle of dignity.

Check out how he says "Give it up for me"
and also notice the sweat under the arms kind of add's to things.

Now, I'm not badmouthing MS here (opinions aside), so please don't censor me moderators, this is simply a link to a clip that shows him at his keynote, unedited, HE is the star here, not anybody else and I ain't saying another word, because there are NO WORDS for this! oh and I can't help the filename not my doing.

http://users.pandora.be/bonte/forumafbeeldingen/dancemonkeyboy.mpg

I am so happy he found the link, but then, it's so bad, I forgot how bad, and actually I feel terrible.

[[:|]] [:O]ops: [:'(]

Priceless [:D]

DG

Now that is truly cringeworthy stuff. Makes Ricky Gervais and a classic episode of 'The Office' look mild in comparison.

Can't see Herb and the team doing this somehow.........!

Regards,


Alex.

[[:|]]

William,

I'm sorry if we got on the wrong foot, but a passion for something like a girl or in our case music/VSL could have its rough areas. Hope we could forget the past and help each other out. [:)]

[[;)]] Cheers!

Guy

All my girls had rough areas: that's why I always carry a sheet of sandpaper with me.
Oh,and that Steve Ballmer should be sacked by Microsoft for complacency.

@strawinsky said:

All my girls had rough areas: that's why I always carry a sheet of sandpaper with me.

[:)] [:D] [:D]

Interesting! I just read the legnthy thread of the Debussy "Jeux de vagues" where arguments broke out with Nafai23, William and a bunch others. I see the subject was somewhere along the lines of this thread's argument. Everybody loved the Debussy but Nafai thought it was cold and sterile, of course I don't agree with Nafia's harsh way of looking at programing music, it's not there to be compared to a real orchestra. The only part I agree with Nafia is that IF you "INSIST" on comparing it with a real orchestra, yes it does sound a bit cold, sorry folks, and don't shoot me, but for the rest I don't go along with him. We can't blame professional musians and concert musicians for making these kind of comments, after all the goal of VSL or any other librairy IS to deceive people making you believe it's NOT a machine doing all that. I just wish I could of heard the Debussy, it's not on the link anymore nor on the demo section. Too bad.

Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents.

Guy