Does that mean Adolphe Sax is out? [:P]
Yeah, of course, 'cos Adolphe is offensive and Sax looks like a miss-spelling.
DG
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I need to make an important correction here. It accured to me that it was not the VSL people we had on line but "APPLE COMPUTERS", and THEY were the ones charging $260.00 My sincere apologies to the VSL staff for that error. I think the people who are following this thread will now see that VSL maintains their EXCELLENT reputation. I have also added a footnote on the original post clearing VSL. I only witnessed the conversation and it was related to RAM problems we've been having with Logic/VSL, so I somehow thought it was VSL support team. I know I'm about to strike out on this thread, so I hope we can move on..
This thread has been a nightmare! [:'(]
ps DG, Don't worry i was only kidding about using the name of our sax inventor, Adolphe Sax. [[;)]]
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Well personally, I will never buy a PC again, just FYI, Mac support have always been great with me - you have to buy the 3 year warrantee though that's a pre-requisite for any new purchase - after that you have 3 years of phone support and they've always been excellent. 90 days free phone without the extended warrantee.
Miklos.
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mpower88,
Had you been in the same situation (as was the case of my musical supervisor) and had not taken the 3 year warrantee, they ask you $260.00 if you want the answer to your question. I know that's their policy, but can't they keep a record of this, seeing this is the ONLY time you've ever called beyond the 90 days. So miklos, imagine you're in production, you bought 2 G5s from them and absolutely needed just one bit of information and they wouldn't give it to you unless... How would you feel about them?
Guy
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@mpower88 said:
Well personally, I will never buy a PC again, just FYI, Mac support have always been great with me - you have to buy the 3 year warrantee though that's a pre-requisite for any new purchase - after that you have 3 years of phone support and they've always been excellent. 90 days free phone without the extended warrantee.
Miklos.
My beef is not with the machine, although I did send my G5 back, as having finally got rid of Concorde flying over my house, the sound of the Mac going about its daily business was almost as bad! Whilst I can quite understand that people want to run a particular sort of machine, maybe because of the operating system or the programs that are written to run on it, for me there was no advantage in using a Mac, except to be compatible with the major studios, who all seem to run Mac. However, once I'd given SloTools the elbow, there was no longer any point in running a machine that was twice as expensive and slower than my PC, when I was intending to use a cross-platform program.
No, my beef is with Apple. When they were supposed to deliver the G5 I was given multiple dates, none of which were adhered to. I was lied to by the bods in the office about this on many occasions, and was not only treated very badly, but accused of lying about what I'd been told. Unfortunately for them they had put it in writing, so I could easily prove my case. I never got an apology of any sort.
So you see, if the Mac was a better machine for me, I would think twice, but as it's not, it is a no-brainer for me to use PC.
DG
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Guy: I know what you're saying, that does s88k, however if you're running a major production and you just bought two G5's you should get the insurance that goes with it - that's what I would do. A lot of shops throw it in for nothing (that's the deal I got with the machine I bought this time) or do it cheaper than the quoted price which is honestly a bit much. It increases your resale value a lot too if you plan to ditch them even two years later, much better to say "one year warrante left" than nothing at all - big difference in sale price. I suppose my policy is to automatically buy the warrantee I don't buy a machine without it, the one time I did I was sorry. But no arguments in actual fact - regarding what you said - in your shoes, yes, I would be peed off.
dg: apple were hopeless with there original G5 timetable but it was mostly due to ibm not being on schedule with the chips or so I heard, it's just part of a long story that lead to apple going with intel after finally having enough of IBM not giving them any respect. My G5 runs at Maximum nearly all day and I just have it sitting in the corner, isn't noisy at all, it's a 2.0 not even a liquid cooled machine fans never go more than about 30% usually hang around minimum (10% or so?) and that's only when it's a hot day and I didn't have any air con in the room. Usually room temp is 24 degrees C. I used PC's for many years and sunk so much money into em eventually I just said "never again". Although it's true, macs are expensive, if you look at the design of the hardware alone in a G5, at the time they came out, PC's couldn't compete.
End of the day, it's not important as you say you have to get the right machine for you - i did too [H] Apple here in Australia are very good to my experience except on price [[:|]] that's why I buy from resellers never direct and I always get good service from them. [:P] Last time I bought a demo model with the screen that was going out (but to me looks better - the plastic 23 inch cinema) all up for $1600 off retail plus I got the applecare thrown in cheap but quality ram and an extra drive for quite cheap (way cheaper than apples web site). *not a scratch on it or the screen - not even a dead pixel*
Miklos.
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@mpower88 said:
Although it's true, macs are expensive, if you look at the design of the hardware alone in a G5, at the time they came out, PC's couldn't compete.
Miklos.
I think that it's good we can have this discussion without it turning into the usual Mac/Pc war.
FWIW I would have agreed with you about 5 years ago, but things have changed so much in the PC world, especially since XP, that the supposed superiority of Macs is now just a myth. The only reason to get one these days is the software, be it the operating system or programs that only run on Mac. It will be very interesting to see what happens when the new breed of Intel Macs are released, as comparisons should be much more accurate. It's just a shame that you will have to buy from Apple in order to get OSX, which sort of puts up the price of the OS by 1000% compared with XP, unless they drastically reduce the price of a Mac.
DG
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I heard that PC's are faster now if you compare but I'm loyal, and I'm even more anti microsoft, and I'm a logic user. I've seen that PC's are very good now, I still don't like them. I know apple are a big corp too but I just don't like the mentality after seeing the number 2 of MS on stage a couple of years ago cahorting around screaming about their bottom line so over zealously and practically maniacally until he had to lean on his mic stand to prevent himself for having a heart attack it took him a full five minutes to get his breath back and he really looked visibly unwell though he still tried to go "yeaH' YEAH" a few more unwise times. I thought "I don't want to buy from a company that's run by someone like that". I wish I had the quicktime so I could give you a link it was almost funny if it wasn't just too much trajedy all at once. I felt sorry for the guy.
Regardless, your opinions are respected here... but I must say (with respect and certainly don't want to be PC vs MAC how boring am I doing that? please tell me and I will retract relevant portions) I haven't used xp, I just hate the name right away, and it looks c**p to my macintosh adjusted eyes call me prejudiced I guess. I'm not against pc's but I am against pc companies, the way they package market and handle things and also I'm against microsoft. If there were a PC manufacturer who made it's own OS and designed it's own boxes I buy from them but hey: that's apple! so there you go. speed wise, yeah it's pretty uncool that Mac's don't at least equal PC's and they have lagged price/speed compatibility wise but we mac freaks are a loyal bunch and we'll stick it thougth for a few clock cycles less for what is around the corner and for 1000% markup on the OS I don't just get the best OS out there (IMO) but also the best designed box, that might not come up to speed on an equivalent priced PC the overall I prefer the package. I'm expecting and hoping that the intel change will be great for apple customers once the first 3 months are over, I think the whole price point issue will go away as we'll have competing processors, better system design, OSX and although it will probably still be more expensive comparatively, apples will be hugely more competitive. I've had my G5 running for 3 days straight day and night encoding H264 quicktimes with final cut pro at night and running Logic/VSL maxed out during the day without a reboot and no crashes (ok logic crashed once but I'd saved). Honest question: can you do that these days with a PC (I'm really asking I don't know).
Wow what an excellent time waster and avoidance of work this has been! thanks! I feel refreshed and ready for more music!
Cheers,
Miklos.
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@mpower88 said:
I know apple are a big corp too but I just don't like the mentality after seeing the number 2 of MS on stage a couple of years ago cahorting around screaming about their bottom line so over zealously and practically maniacally until he had to lean on his mic stand to prevent himself for having a heart attack it took him a full five minutes to get his breath back and he really looked visibly unwell though he still tried to go "yeaH' YEAH" a few more unwise times. I thought "I don't want to buy from a company that's run by someone like that". I wish I had the quicktime so I could give you a link it was almost funny if it wasn't just too much trajedy all at once. I felt sorry for the guy.
Cheers,
Miklos.
Hmmmm. I can see that you're a lot more complicated than I first suspected Miklos.
[:D]
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@mpower88 said:
I've had my G5 running for 3 days straight day and night encoding H264 quicktimes with final cut pro at night and running Logic/VSL maxed out during the day without a reboot and no crashes (ok logic crashed once but I'd saved). Honest question: can you do that these days with a PC (I'm really asking I don't know).
Wow what an excellent time waster and avoidance of work this has been! thanks! I feel refreshed and ready for more music!
Cheers,
Miklos.
Oh, don't think that I like MS any more than you do. However, as Bill Gates also owns a large portion of Apple there doesn't seem to be any choice. I'm afraid that I'm one of those people who thinks of a pooter as a tool and once Nuendo is open I couldn't give a rats arse what OS I am running [:D]
As far as crashes, my DAW has yet to do so (been running it for about 15 months now), my laptop is fine as long as I don't run the updated K2 and my GS machines only ever crashed when I updated the art files and didn't change the temp directory. Now I've changed this I can comfortably say that they don't crash, although I've only been running them for 6 months.
Oh, and FYO this discussion doesn't come under the heading of time wasting, it's professional, investigative development. That way I feel justified in paying myself double time for a Sunday [:D]
DG
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Speed is important,obviously,and I'm not sure where all these claims of PC (or Mac,for that matter) superiority in that area come from originally.Figures can be coveniently massaged to mean something else for people with agendas.To me,it's about the operating system,and in that area there is no competition,in my not-so-humble opinion.The Apple OS is way ahead of Windows.I know several seasoned "PC people" (God,it's starting to sound racist [:)] ) ,who have been involved with Windows in the capacity of programming,but also know about the Mac OS,and they are in a distinctly better position to judge the merits of of both systems,than most of the computers-users on the everyday forums.No disrespect intended,there, but it's a given.These people are saying that Windows is wasteful,inelegant and downright obtuse (yeah,like we didn't already know that);not to mention a poor imitation of Mac OS:has anyone seen the look and feature "innovations" of the long-awaited Greenhorn,sorry,Longhorn.
If I may,here's a simple example from my own experience,but is typical of many such instances (I own Mac and PC BTW).I recently purchased a multimedia player,and,no it wasn't an i-pod.It was an i-(damn that lower case ,self-important,ubiquitous letter)river.An i-river.It plays movies,has a radio and a built in microphone and a very large TFT screen.In short,for me,it's better than any i-pod currently available.It came with a PC-only install CD, and a substantial section in the manual given over to explaining its operation with a PC,and and equally substantial trouble-shooting section.You know the kind of Windows things:if you plug in such and such a USB device,and it conflicts with this,then do that,which then means you find some other device won't work,because one hasn't done this to counteract the fact that you didn't something else,which totally alarmed the Windows architecture.Shall I go on? No.I didn't think so.
Anyway,I plug this player straight in to one of my Macs (this the other thing:it works on ALL of them in a consistent and predictable fashion) and it's mounted as a USB device within ten seconds.No fuss,no conflicts,no install CD.And it's doing what it's supposed to be doing on the PC,while you're still rummaging around in the "Device Manager" (ha,that's a laugh).The weird thing is,this player has a Windows-based,FAT 32 (IBM PC) OS,yet it works quicker with my Macs.
I won't bore everyone (probably have already) with the many tales of woe from acquaintances running the Windows OS.Actually I 've been told that I'm lucky in that respect,since I've never had a major crash,requiring complete reinstallation every couple of months or so (which what some people do!), often due to running the internet at the same time as other apps..No.But it's trashed my hard drive(which,incidentally,I subsequently put in a Mac and got it to work (the PC didn't want to know),and blew up its power supply.I tolerate the PC,simply to run Gigastudio,which is fine.
Another thing: the Mac OS is beautiful.The Windows OS is quite grotesque.There's no room for ugliness in my life,particularly when I'm staring at screens for hours,day after day.As soon as Gigastudio is up and running the screen goes OFF.
Dell are not desperate to be able to sell the Mac OS on its PC's fot nothing.The i-pod has opened a lot of younger peoples' eyes the Mac OS.People who are now looking a the Mac Minis and seeing how a proper operating system works. Here endeth the lesson.Well,it IS a Sunday.
BTW: isn't the VSL library great?!
[[;)]]
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Re ugliness: I'm with you on that but I didn't want to go and say it...
I was one of those people who reinstalled windows on a monthly basis.
I use my mac to browse web sites download emails upload ftps all while I'm playing my nearly maxed out logic tracks in the background never had to reinstall, this is the same installation from V10.1 of the operating system now on 10.4, although your record of no crashes I cannot claim to have been so lucky, logic does crash on me from time to time but then again I'm running old plug in's from Waves that it warns me not to use on start up so who I am to complain about that. [8-)] (waves won't support 10.4 unless you $pay$).
I am happy that Mac is the under dog I think it's for that reason that the Mac OS has become so good, they've said, ok if we're going to survive here, we're going to HAVE to be better. So it's great for me that most people use PC's especially so since Virus programmers target their mass audience, and leave mac users alone. No viruses on OSX YET! hooray. Apple is also less hated - not than PC's than MS so less of a virus target.
There should be a very strong law against bill gates owning apple, not because it's a monopoly, but because it's just indecent, and immoral for him to be a part of it! [*-)] there should be a committe against it, a human rights commission into the matter, and some other things. I would prefer if his money were in genetically modified cow toe nail powder for babies milk that would be much more suitable for a person of his stature at least we could identify that as an obvious source of maliciousness with or without his involvement and avoid it.
sorry did I go overboard? Actually I really like the guy [[:|]] sure in fact I asked him to baby sit for me just last week , he had an engagement but really, a regular uncle charlie and all that [*-)]
quite a balanced character I heard [8-)]
ok I'm just being silly. [[;)]]
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and ah... VSL is SUPER DUPER
Although I say that in jest because I have been guilty of wasing forum space being rediculous and talking about anything BUT VSL issues (althought in minor ways indirectly related) actually, I really DO think that, VSL IS super duper, wonderful, and I love it. That part isn't silly. [:D]
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@strawinsky said:
Speed is important,obviously,and I'm not sure where all these claims of PC (or Mac,for that matter) superiority in that area come from originally.Figures can be coveniently massaged to mean something else for people with agendas.To me,it's about the operating system,and in that area there is no competition,in my not-so-humble opinion.The Apple OS is way ahead of Windows.I know several seasoned "PC people" (God,it's starting to sound racist [:)] ) ,who have been involved with Windows in the capacity of programming,but also know about the Mac OS,and they are in a distinctly better position to judge the merits of of both systems,than most of the computers-users on the everyday forums.No disrespect intended,there, but it's a given.These people are saying that Windows is wasteful,inelegant and downright obtuse (yeah,like we didn't already know that);not to mention a poor imitation of Mac OS:has anyone seen the look and feature "innovations" of the long-awaited Greenhorn,sorry,Longhorn.
[[[;)]]]
Just when we were having such a civilised discussion [[[;)]]]
1) If you talk to the same unnamed sources who agreed that XP was a "wasteful operating system" (which I happen to agree with) then I'm sure that they will back up my view on the relative speeds of Mac and PC. However, all you need to do is test any cross-platform apps and you will see. I can't comment on Longhorn until it is a commercial product and until I've used it.
2) I would assume that anything that starts with"i" is Mac based so its no wonder that it works on a Mac.
3) Mac OS being beautiful is your opinion. I don't find XP (I run in Classic) grotesque and I find OSX puerile and invasive. When I'm working I am not even aware of the operating system, so even if it was ugly I'm more interested in the GUI of my sequencer or notation program.
Unfortunately we are always hearing about how bad Windows is, but I've sat in many sessions where the Mac, crashed, needed to be re-started, trashing prefs etc. We all have scare stories about computers; the time my Mac erased the whole of a film score the day before the mixing session. The bottom line is that whichever platform has given the most trouble is the one we don't like. I'm glad that you are in love with your Mac; I save that for people, not machines [8-)]
DG
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@mpower88 said:
and ah... VSL is SUPER DUPER
Although I say that in jest because I have been guilty of wasing forum space being rediculous and talking about anything BUT VSL issues (althought in minor ways indirectly related) actually, I really DO think that, VSL IS super duper, wonderful, and I love it. That part isn't silly. [:D]
With you on that, for sure...
DG